fire codes/removal of a fire escape landing
Bored at Work is spot on here, and for the same reason, Pythagoras’s opposite advice isn’t.
Sure, a fire escape no longer complies with current definitions of egress. But what we’re talking about here is actually removing a means of life safety (such as a fire escape), whether or not these means would fully satisfy modern code or would be allowed in new construction.
Smokychimp
in General Discussion 8 years and 11 months ago
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lorascelsi7 | 8 years and 11 months ago
HI! This is my first post. We are brand new first time home owners of a 1903 three story fixer-upper.
Can anyone please recommend someone (architect?) who actually knows the NYC fire code as it relates to my fire escape and what is legally required?
I called the fire dept and they dont know the code nor do any of the architects Ive spoken to.
One of the former owners built a terrace a few feet below the metal landing of the fire escape on the second floor. Now I am losing 20% of the space of the terrace to an enclosed box of metal which could just as easily be floor space on my terrace. If I knew it were up to code I could just remove it and have the steps from the 3rd floor end on the terrace floor. In my last apt the steps from the 3rd floor fire escape went directly to the roof of the second floor, so I know its possible.
Thanks for any suggestions!
DW
katdov | 8 years and 11 months ago
Scott Schnall is very knowledgeable, but not the easiest person to deal with. He is listed and his office is on 178 Atlantic Ave.
jimhillra | 8 years and 11 months ago
Please describe it in more detail. The way the code is written, the fire escape must go to the roof, and end in a landing approximately one story above the ground, with a drop down ladder to the ground. There is a maximum height of that ladder.
By terrace, I assume you mean the roof of an extension (or some enclosed part of the building). If it’s open underneath, it’s an open porch if at the parlor floor, or a balcony if above that.
If a terrace or an open porch, then it’s possible that the fire escape may be able to terminate there, as long as the terrace or porch construction is non-combustible (masonry and/or steel), and has a steel stair to the ground. The lowest landing of the fire escape may be one story above the terrace/porch, with a drop down ladder or steel stairs down to the terrace/porch. The reasoning is that it provides a non-combustible path of egress from roof to ground.
I say the above is possible, but it’s not the letter of the law, meaning it’s not what is specifically called for in the code, so it’s also possible that the DOB may reject it, de pending upon how rigid the plan examiner is. Technically, the fire escape is supposed to terminate in a drop down ladder, not a stair. I’ve had a similar situation to the above terrace in which the plan examiner required a drop down ladder from the terrace, in addition to the stairs.
Jim Hill, RA, LEED AP
Certified Passive House Designer
Urban Pioneering Architecture, DPC
pythagoras | 8 years and 11 months ago
If the fire escape is located on the rear of the house (which it kind of sounds like), and there is no direct access via an alley, side yard, door, etc. to the street, it no longer counts as egress (at some point in the past there may have been access from the rear yard to the street). If you have a one or two family house of 3 stories, only one means of egress is required if both units have doors to the street. In this case, the fire escape is not needed and you could remove it. The current fire code applies if you are doing renovation work, but also applicable is the building code – 1938, 1968, or 2014 – which one depends on whether you have a certificate of occupancy or not, and when that C of O was issued.
So, more info needed: how many units, which face of the building is it on, do you have sprinklers in your hallways… I’m sure there’s others.
boredatwork | 8 years and 11 months ago
Good luck trying to remove a fire escape regardless of what the code says now. I tried to avoid the repair of a leaking 1.5″ water line dedicated to a sprinkler service that was not then required by code (2 family home; this was well pre-2014). I engaged a knowledgeable architect and expeditor and was told that the Fire Department would never sign off on the diminution of any fire protection. I tried to fight, but in the end it cost me over $15K to replace the water line as FDNY would not budge.
Not sure about the assertion that a rear fire escape does not count as a means of egress unless it leads to the street. Almost all of the homes on my block have rear fire escapes and the buildings all form a continuous street wall. No alleys. I doubt they were erected for the fun of it.
Regardless, you should talk to an architect or expeditor. Good ones doing current renovation and construction work have to know the code or their submissions wont be approved by DoB.