feasibility of turning an extension that wasn't filed into a legal extension

You guys are great. Thanks for this info @MDR. So I think it must be a porch in the back. We would be renovating the existing footprint. I’ll definitely consult with an architect to get the final word on whether we’ll need to get it approved and whether we are grandfathered in with the existing structure and it’s dimensions.

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WRPListings | 8 years and 2 months ago

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We are in contract to buy a townhouse that has an extension that doesn’t seem to be filed with the DOB. It is a 7X20 extension that serves as a laundry room. It’s cinderblock on the outside, finished on the inside but not insulated. It also blocks the window from the back room to the outside which is awful. We assumed that we’d be knocking it down and restoring the view out of the back. One contractor suggested adding to it (ie insulating, adding a bigger window, tearing down wall between back room and extension to make bigger room with light) rather than demolishing it. Is this something that can be approved with proper plans from an architect?

peaceout | 8 years and 2 months ago

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First and foremost you need to find out if the extension can be legalized. There are a number of factors to consider: how many ft can you go out (I believe there needs to be 30′ from the back of your building to the property line.). You need an architect who is familiar with DOB regs, can research for you whether it is on the Sanborn map, there was a period in which extensions have been grandfathered in. Bottom line is if this extension is deemed illegal and cannot be filed, I strongly suggest to take it down. You will be haunted with this extension forever, and can effect the resale of your home, mortgage or future borrowing on it. If you have work done on this illegal extension you can’t file, meaning you will be looking over your shoulder, hoping a DOB inspector doesn’t knock on your door, or a neighbor doesn’t call it in. If you love the house, have your lawyer negotiate your offer ($10-15k) stating that you will need to remove it. And technically you need a permit to take it down. Do the right thing, you want to sleep at night.

WRPListings | 8 years and 2 months ago

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Thanks for this info! I think the size of the extension is probably to code (there’s more than 30 feet from the back of the extension to the end of the yard). However, to be legal does an extension have to have a foundation of a certain depth? That’s the part I’m wondering about since I doubt it has a foundation that is deep. The contractor said he could put metal beams inside to fortify the roof and also around entry between the house and the extension. BTW we are already in contract for the place and already negotiated a 50K reduction in price because of the extension issue. Thanks!

peaceout | 8 years and 2 months ago

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Can we communicate off line? Text me your contact info 718 5419965

peaceout | 8 years and 2 months ago

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It doesn’t matter how your contractor is suggesting how to construct this. If it cannot be legalized, you will have a problem on your hands.

WRPListings | 8 years and 2 months ago

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Yes, I understand what the contractor says he CAN do is very different than what is legal…I so I’m curious about what would bring an extension up to code? are there specific features that need to be in place for a legal extension? And is it possible to bring an illegal extension up to code and have it legalized?

robyim1 | 8 years and 2 months ago

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When I bought my place it had an existing extension. Which was pretty much falling apart. We had a survey of the property done which showed the extension. Then the architect used the survey to file along with a whole house renovation which allowed us to
rebuild the extension to code. This included pouring a new slab on grade foundation, proper framing, proper support for a new deck on top, proper insulation and openings for a new door and window. Pretty much a brand new structure and it was approved based on the survey.

robyim1 | 8 years and 2 months ago

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When I bought my place it had an existing extension. Which was pretty much falling apart. We had a survey of the property done which showed the extension. Then the architect used the survey to file along with a whole house renovation which allowed us to
rebuild the extension to code. This included pouring a new slab on grade foundation, proper framing, proper support for a new deck on top, proper insulation and openings for a new door and window. Pretty much a brand new structure and it was approved based on the survey.

robyim1 | 8 years and 2 months ago

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When I bought my place it had an existing extension. Which was pretty much falling apart. We had a survey of the property done which showed the extension. Then the architect used the survey to file along with a whole house renovation which allowed us to
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peaceout | 8 years and 2 months ago

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@mhw365 If the seller agreed to taking 50k off the asking price, there is a possibility this is indeed either something that cannot be filed. The only way to bring something up to code is to have an architect submit drawings to DOB. However any decent architect will more or less know if it can be legalized prior to the DOB sit down. If you choose to use a contractor who has grand plans, but is aware the extension is not legal and are aware of the potential issues this comes with – then go for it. I am speaking personal and professional experience. Dealing with illegal extensions is not worth it. I gave you my number a few posts up, If you want to talk more about this, feel free to give me ring.

WRPListings | 8 years and 2 months ago

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@gobedstuygo- can you tell me how we might be able to get a survey done before we close on the house? We will definitely have an architect involved, but that may not be until we close. I’d love to get a sense if this is something that is on the survey or not before then. Thanks!

WRPListings | 8 years and 2 months ago

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Also, this seems like exactly what we would need to do….would you say that this ended up costing as much as a new extension? Given that it costs 10-15k to demolish the existing structure, how much more did it cost to do this?

resident2 | 8 years and 2 months ago

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When buying a house, in my opinion you should always get a survey done as part of the title searches. Insist on getting an actual printed out survey, not just a survey inspection. It costs a bit more but it literally gives you the outline, extensions, fences etc of your property.
The fact that you cannot find a filing for the extension in the DOB files does not mean that is illegal. By the size of it it sounds like one of the old “tea porches” that used to be wood frame, over the years some people rebuilt them etc.. But the actual extension is “grandfathered in”. A survey will show if it has been there for almost ever.

WRPListings | 8 years and 2 months ago

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Thanks @resident2. I just checked the title search that we have and I don’t see a survey. Should I ask our lawyer to request it or can I request it myself? If so, where would this request be directed, the DOB? Also, I noticed that the title search says that it was inspected last year and no violations were found. Does this mean that the extension is probably grandfathered in or legal? Thanks!

resident2 | 8 years and 2 months ago

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Ask your lawyer; who is the one that ordered the title search to order a physical survey, so that you have it in your files. Not just for the purpose of purchasing, but for future use.
The inspection last year was by who and for what purpose? Typically DOB does not inspect the whole building unless a whole new C of O or a building wide permit was obtained for some reason.
But the chances are as I said before there has probably been an extension there from long before C of O came into existence.

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You’re right- I looked more closely and it’s a search of the DOB’s records that shows no violations. So not an inspection but a search. One more question- is the physical survey different than what you would get at the DOB if you were to request the records for the building? I asked the lawyer for the blueprint and he said that we would get that directly from the DOB? How is a survey different? Thanks!

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Just heard back from the lawyer. He said that they could not locate a survey so they ordered one. THe one they ordered has the extension on it…how does that fit into what you’ve said @resident2?

Run Joe | 8 years and 2 months ago

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The Bank/Title survey is helpful, however, it only documents the current condition. It won’t tell if it’s permitted or how long it’s been there.

What you need is the I-Card for this property. You can find it on the Department of Housing and Buildings(HPD) website.

https://hpdonline.hpdnyc.org/HPDonline/provide_address.aspx

Enter the address and scroll down on the left to ICard Images. If you have an ICard the process of legalizing/rebuilding the extension will be much easier.

WRPListings | 8 years and 2 months ago

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I checked that before- doesn’t seem to be an ICard on record. I’m finding that there isn’t much documentation for this house. Not sure what to make of that…Could we get the equivalent of an ICard at the actual DOB? Thanks!