Extension age mystery
So, lack of heat and humidity will deter them and of course treatment. I just read that a lot of people have these old woden barns in places like ct and maybe the hudson valley and the convert them to heated shops and even houses and as soon as they do, termites move in. Concrete is a deterent.
justinromeu26
in General Discussion 2 years and 4 months ago
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Lauren | 2 years and 5 months ago
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We’re trying to figure out the age of an extension on our Prospect Heights house. I requested the DOB file and there was a 1957 letter from the then-owner about an unspecified project so we initially wondered if it could be that. But I’ve since pulled years of Sanborn maps – nothing. Then I looked up the 1929 Belcher map, which does not show the extension either (and, weirdly, also has the shape of the house wrong). For fun, I looked to see if there were any tidbits in the Brooklyn Eagle archives – nothing there either. In better news, the DOF tax map online does show the extension, as does the FAR calculation on the OASIS map, so at some point it did enter city records… Is there any way to get historic tax department maps (not Sanborn)? Are there other maps / resources we could use to help date this? The previous forum posts have been so helpful in getting us to this point, but now I’m stumped!
justinromeu26 | 2 years and 5 months ago
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Historic aerial photos. Maybe. Not sure how small of an extension you might see.
cate | 2 years and 5 months ago
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Did the Sanborn maps show any extensions on your neighbors’ house? Are you part of a row?
Lauren | 2 years and 5 months ago
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@Cate – we are indeed part of a row and no other extensions were shown, but beyond our nearest neighbors I’m not totally sure how many other houses might have something. I did notice that literally next door – where the original house was torn down and a new structure was built instead at some point – the Sanborn maps appear to have some inconsistent/incorrect information, and all that is literally visible from the street. Why do you ask?
@HomeInspector – the aerial photo recommendation is a great one! I found a 1951 city one online but of course it’s too blurry to really see anything (I’m not even totally sure I know which is our house!) Any advice on where to find a detailed aerial photo would be appreciated.
justinromeu26 | 2 years and 5 months ago
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Check on line again. What zip are you in. Some years are better than others. And older one could be better than newer ones. I know. Counterintuitive.
Lauren | 2 years and 5 months ago
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@HomeInspector – we are in 11238. Any sources you know would be very welcome!
justinromeu26 | 2 years and 5 months ago
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I like looking at old maps. Usually of long island because it changed more in the last hundred years. But i can handle brooklyn. Better than watching tv.
If you go to my website, www.brownstonehomeinspection.com and shoot me your address, i’ll zoom in on your home if i find anything besides the one you found.
xuytbjicwnofjdde | 2 years and 5 months ago
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Have you looked through the Center for Brooklyn History map collection? I’ve recently gone down a rabbit hole to try and see when our house was built and found the map collection useful (city records list it as 1845 but I found data to suggest it was maybe at least 15 years earlier)
Lauren | 2 years and 5 months ago
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@HomeInspector – thank you! I’ll be emailing you 🙂 @umanish – that is a good suggestion too! I went to the maps collection at the main NYPL branch, but looking at a Brooklyn-specific site also seems smart so I will check them out.
justinromeu26 | 2 years and 5 months ago
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So a lot of this is on line now. Even sanborn. If it is not the nypl, other libraries around the country have them. Its fun going to the map rooms though.
justinromeu26 | 2 years and 5 months ago
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go to historic aerials on line. look at the 1980 map. you will see your house as clear as day. move your house to the lower left corner of the viewer and switch to the 1954 map which is blurry but you will see the curved corner of the extension in the photo in the same place as you left it with the 1980 map. .
if i can find out how to send you a link to it via email i will.
cate | 2 years and 5 months ago
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OP, I was asking about the extension because in my experience if they are original and the whole row has them, they are usually on the Sanborn map. But most of my experience is with 1890s houses, and it’s possible Sanborn had different habits at different times, or perhaps extensions were not standard until a certain era.
justinromeu26 | 2 years and 5 months ago
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Op, i just thought of something that others can help with because i do not know the years. Is your extension made with older bricks and lime mortar or modern bricks and modern mortar? At some point around 1900 or after the change occured. A clue might be that modern concrete sidewalks came about in the 1890’s so that might indicate a shift in materials. By the time these queens row houses were built in the 1920s, modern mortar was being used exclusively.
What is the foundation? Stone or poured concrete?
Also, square cut nails. When did we stop using them?
cate | 2 years and 5 months ago
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Poured concrete slab foundations as well as stone foundations were both in use for extensions at least as early as the 1890s. Later row houses use concrete block for foundations in the cellar.
justinromeu26 | 2 years and 5 months ago
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I am not so sure they did poured concrete slab foundations in here that early if at all. I suspect everything had at least a crawl space which meant a poured footer and wall but any slab would have been added after the foundation was done. Poured slab foundation would be used on a modern extension with no crawl space. Think slab on grade.
Lauren | 2 years and 5 months ago
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Thanks again @HomeInspector & @Cate! We looked and it appears to be a poured concrete foundation. The exterior is mostly stucco but there are some bricks as edging – how do you tell the age of those? (We looked online for a guide and it’s not clear to us, although we think it is Portland cement versus lime.)
justinromeu26 | 2 years and 5 months ago
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I just looked this up and poured foundations apparantly began in 1912.
I worked in a wwi era building on 57 st that still had stone. My 1928 home is poured. A friend of mine on long island has a building his grandfather had built in 1920 and they “hand poured” that.
Two of my great grandfathers built houses on long island. We are pretty certain about the year for one on the east end (1920) and it is poured. The other, in nassau, we suspect was built in 1916 and it was poured.
Cate mentions poured slab foundations. In the nassau town my great grandfather settled, leavitt built a precursor to leavittown in 1946/7. Those houses were poured slab foundation. No crawl space.
In so far as stucco, i lived in a stucco home that was built in 1910 in wilmington, nc. I cannot recall if the foundation was poured. A few houses on that street had stucco as if it was the big new thing.
Someone else on here will know more. I’ll google more about poured foundations.
justinromeu26 | 2 years and 5 months ago
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The bit i read about poured foundations came from the wisconsin historical society.
cate | 2 years and 5 months ago
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FWIW, our extension is definitely original to the 1895 house and it is concrete slab on grade with nothing underneath. With unfinished frame walls sitting on top. It’s less than ideal.