Extension age mystery
We’re trying to figure out the age of an extension on our Prospect Heights house. I requested the DOB file and there was a 1957 letter from the then-owner about an unspecified project so we initially wondered if it could be that. But I’ve since pulled years of Sanborn maps – nothing. Then I looked up the 1929 Belcher map, which does not show the extension either (and, weirdly, also has the shape of the house wrong). For fun, I looked to see if there were any tidbits in the Brooklyn Eagle archives – nothing there either. In better news, the DOF tax map online does show the extension, as does the FAR calculation on the OASIS map, so at some point it did enter city records… Is there any way to get historic tax department maps (not Sanborn)? Are there other maps / resources we could use to help date this? The previous forum posts have been so helpful in getting us to this point, but now I’m stumped!
Lauren
in General Discussion 2 years and 5 months ago
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justinromeu26 | 2 years and 4 months ago
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So, lack of heat and humidity will deter them and of course treatment. I just read that a lot of people have these old woden barns in places like ct and maybe the hudson valley and the convert them to heated shops and even houses and as soon as they do, termites move in. Concrete is a deterent.
RobertGMarvin
in General Discussion 2 years and 4 months ago
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We’ll, the repair was >35 years ago and it hasn’t collapsed yet. OTOH many of my neighbors have sheds where the wood is still in contact with the ground and they are still standing after 124 years.
justinromeu26 | 2 years and 4 months ago
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So termites won’t or can’t eat pressure treated wood but they can build tubes over it to get to say the regular old wood up above.
RobertGMarvin
in General Discussion 2 years and 4 months ago
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We have a wooden extension/shed similar to what Cate describes BUT the thin concrete slab floor was poured AFTER it was built, around the wood supports, which sat directly on the ground. Amazingly there was no sign of termites, but the bottoms of the wooden supports were, quite naturally, rotted. Nearly 40 years ago a neighbor who was a landscape architect by profession, but who had extensive practical construction skills, repaired it by building a concrete foundation, of sorts (maybe better called a footing) and cutting out the rotted wood and replacing it with pressure treated lumber. He put aluminum sheets between the bottoms of the new wood and the concrete. This Rube Goldbergesque arrangement has held up quite well.
justinromeu26 | 2 years and 4 months ago
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So i am not sure if you have brick construction on top of that or wood. Just be aware that a simple slab with wood sitting on it is very risky for termites. Especially if it cracks.
cate | 2 years and 4 months ago
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Yes, that’s right, like a sidewalk. Thank you!
justinromeu26 | 2 years and 4 months ago
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I have been reading about these to pin the dates that this stuff came about. I thought maybe you had a monolithic slab, that is a slab with a foundation around it – all done in one pour. These seem to have come about later and that makes sense. What you seem to have is a simple slab (like a sidewalk). It makes sense because pour sidewalks seem to have developed circa 1895.
cate | 2 years and 4 months ago
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I don’t know exactly what to call it. The original floor of our small extension (aka shed) was a piece of concrete, not terribly thick, resting on the ground. Over the years, it became crooked, as you can imagine. It didn’t have anything going down to prevent frost heave.
justinromeu26 | 2 years and 5 months ago
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Cate, do you have a foundation or footing underneath? Or just a thick slab? A foundation would go down around the perimeter of the slab, say to the frost line. This is how they do it in a modern sense.
I am curious now because people try to date this concrete stuff. I read someplace that concrete sidewalks came in in 1895 and that the first concrete road was poured in like 1892; technology spread fast.
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But there is no foundation or footing? Just a slab? There is a slab and there is a poured slab foundation (one unit: monolithic). They are a little different.
cate | 2 years and 5 months ago
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FWIW, our extension is definitely original to the 1895 house and it is concrete slab on grade with nothing underneath. With unfinished frame walls sitting on top. It’s less than ideal.
justinromeu26 | 2 years and 5 months ago
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The bit i read about poured foundations came from the wisconsin historical society.
justinromeu26 | 2 years and 5 months ago
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I just looked this up and poured foundations apparantly began in 1912.
I worked in a wwi era building on 57 st that still had stone. My 1928 home is poured. A friend of mine on long island has a building his grandfather had built in 1920 and they “hand poured” that.
Two of my great grandfathers built houses on long island. We are pretty certain about the year for one on the east end (1920) and it is poured. The other, in nassau, we suspect was built in 1916 and it was poured.
Cate mentions poured slab foundations. In the nassau town my great grandfather settled, leavitt built a precursor to leavittown in 1946/7. Those houses were poured slab foundation. No crawl space.
In so far as stucco, i lived in a stucco home that was built in 1910 in wilmington, nc. I cannot recall if the foundation was poured. A few houses on that street had stucco as if it was the big new thing.
Someone else on here will know more. I’ll google more about poured foundations.
Lauren | 2 years and 5 months ago
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Thanks again @HomeInspector & @Cate! We looked and it appears to be a poured concrete foundation. The exterior is mostly stucco but there are some bricks as edging – how do you tell the age of those? (We looked online for a guide and it’s not clear to us, although we think it is Portland cement versus lime.)
justinromeu26 | 2 years and 5 months ago
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I am not so sure they did poured concrete slab foundations in here that early if at all. I suspect everything had at least a crawl space which meant a poured footer and wall but any slab would have been added after the foundation was done. Poured slab foundation would be used on a modern extension with no crawl space. Think slab on grade.
cate | 2 years and 5 months ago
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Poured concrete slab foundations as well as stone foundations were both in use for extensions at least as early as the 1890s. Later row houses use concrete block for foundations in the cellar.
justinromeu26 | 2 years and 5 months ago
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Op, i just thought of something that others can help with because i do not know the years. Is your extension made with older bricks and lime mortar or modern bricks and modern mortar? At some point around 1900 or after the change occured. A clue might be that modern concrete sidewalks came about in the 1890’s so that might indicate a shift in materials. By the time these queens row houses were built in the 1920s, modern mortar was being used exclusively.
What is the foundation? Stone or poured concrete?
Also, square cut nails. When did we stop using them?
cate | 2 years and 5 months ago
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OP, I was asking about the extension because in my experience if they are original and the whole row has them, they are usually on the Sanborn map. But most of my experience is with 1890s houses, and it’s possible Sanborn had different habits at different times, or perhaps extensions were not standard until a certain era.
justinromeu26 | 2 years and 5 months ago
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go to historic aerials on line. look at the 1980 map. you will see your house as clear as day. move your house to the lower left corner of the viewer and switch to the 1954 map which is blurry but you will see the curved corner of the extension in the photo in the same place as you left it with the 1980 map. .
if i can find out how to send you a link to it via email i will.