Ever sold your NYC home yourself, without a broker?
Yes, completely agree with Slopefarm. A good lawyer can also help with the negotiating if you decide you need an intermediary. Brokers’ commissions in the UK are 2%. the fees paid here are daylight robbery.
NeoGrec
in General Discussion 7 years and 2 months ago
25
Please log in, in order to post replies!
25 replies
FishieFishie | 9 years and 2 months ago
Obviously, people do this all the time, but I was wondering how it works, especially with a co-op. Where do you advertise? Is it possible to advertise in some “old-fashioned” way, the way newspaper ads used to be, without over-sharing, or do all sites require everything, starting with name/address? What information of your own do you have to collect to provide people? Although you can’t reject people for protected categories, how does one reject a prospective buyer for other reasons – like he’s just so unpleasant to deal with? At what point does the inevitable lawyer get involved?
neweco | 9 years and 2 months ago
Craigslist Ad
daveinbedstuy | 9 years and 2 months ago
I sold both my Manhattan condo and years later my Brooklyn brownstone FSBO (For Sale By Owner). I advertised in the NY Times and here on Brownstoner. I also stated that I would coop with brokers for 3% and eventually both sold through a buyers broker to whom I paid the 3%. You will get a lot of pushy brokers trying to talk you into signing a contract with them (moreso in Manhattan than Brooklyn). I suspect that above a certain price point, people don’t use Craigslist but not sure where that is..I didn’t use it. Paying the 3% to the buyers broker really does help things especially with first time buyers since they really have difficulty reaching decisions and their broker will push them to do and, since most of those buyers are using a broker, he/she will steer them away from your unit if you don’t offer the 3%.
cmu | 9 years and 2 months ago
With house prices so high, it seems like insanity to even pay 3% for a broker’s efforts. I bought a place without a broker, and so did a couple of others I know…so I wonder if most people do? It seems from what DIBS says is that your universe of buyers will be restricted to those not using brokers if you don’t want to pay the commission. Is that correct? Last time I sold a house, in SF, I offered 4% instead of 6% to the broker and he agreed almost instantly. Is this possible here?
cordeliamilesx | 9 years and 2 months ago
It can’t hurt to talk to a couple of agents from top firms and see what they can offer before you decide. As people have pointed out in other comment threads, it’s really a matter of whether you are ready to do the work and trust yourself to do it well, or yif ou feel it is better for a specialist to do much of the heavy lifting. For what it’s worth, sale prices are typically higher when listed with leading brokerage firms, and sharing a small percentage almost always pays for itself several times over. A good agent will invest hundreds or even thousands of dollars of their own funds on advertising, professional photography, mailings, etc. to promote your property to the widest possible audience, far beyond just Streeteasy. After the advertising and contract negotiation, a good agent also coordinates with the lawyers, lenders, inspector, appraisers, and sometimes acts as a personal therapist ? all to help ensure your transaction closes as smoothly and efficiently as possible. Selling it yourself may be the best choice for you in the end, but I highly recommend talking with a couple of different agents from top firms before deciding. When you meet with the agents, press them for details on how they will market your property, what their fee will be and why, and let them know you expect to get what you pay for. Hope this helps! Rob Millis rob.millis@corcoran.com
carmenf | 9 years and 2 months ago
cmu we bought our place without a buyers broker, but the seller had one so we technically had a dual agent. With that said, we basically did everything ourselves with our attorney. I don’t often see FSBO listings i NYC, but we would certainly have looked at them if we saw something we liked. I think people, especially first-time buyers, are terrified of the real estate market and buying/selling process in NYC. The news and online media outlets make it seem like an impossibly difficult processes to enter into, when, in fact, it’s really not. It’s a lot of contracts and a lot of money, but I do think that most people could do it without a broker as long as they have good legal representation and realistic expectations.
brokelin | 9 years and 2 months ago
I sold with a broker, not because I couldn’t do it myself (I am confident with dealing with unpleasant people and negotiating from my job), but becuase I recognized that their marketing efforts would make a big difference. If I really didn’t want to pay the broker’s fee, I would make sure to pay a good photographer to take really good photos (I think this matters) and take out an ad in the NYTimes. That’s all you really need. I wouldn’t bother with craigslist – serious buyers look in the Times online – craigslist is so disorganized that it can be a waste of time – (which is why good photos really matter – they have to look good online.) I think you should get over your fear of releasing personal information. Yes, you don’t need to list the address, but potential buyers would like to know where it is with some specificity before they decide to come look. Any ad that is too vague about location makes a buyer think the place really isn’t in the neighborhood it is claiming to be in. Yes, information can be found out about you from your address, but a potential buyer needs to come to your address to see the property. You can’t sell a place without this, so just learn to live with it. As to other personal information, you don’t need to give out any. Your lawyer gets involved at the point after which you and a buyer have agreed on a price. Then you have your attorney send their attorney a contract. Contract negotiations can be done through your attorneys, so you can have little contact with the buyer after that. If you are afraid of dealing with buyers before hand and fear your inability to be firm with pleasant or unpleasant people who will want to negotiate the price and other items, then that is where a broker can serve you by being a third party to negotiate for you. It is really up to you whether you want to do this or pay a broker to do it for you. You sound unusually hesitant about dealing with buyers directly for one wanting to sell without a broker. You should offer to pay a buyer’s broker 3% because you need to recognize that most serious buyers will look with one. Why wouldn’t they? It costs them nothing (the seller pays the brokers’ fees), and it can be hard to be taken seriously without one. So recognize that the people trying to buy without a broker will generally be odd or have something odd about their finances – at least that was my experience – since it costs a buyer nothing to use a broker. There are over 20 protected classes in NYC, so you should just assume that anyone you deal with can be in a protected class, even if that is not obvious you, and treat everybody the same, equally and fairly. This is smart advice in business anyway – someone who is unpleasant may be your best offer and a smooth closing. Unpleasantness can be dealt with. After your attorney is involved, you don’t really have to deal with the buyer.
cordeliamilesx | 9 years and 2 months ago
brokelin makes very valuable points, particularly regarding the role of the attorney. The ‘inevitable’ attorney is your protector and advocate in this process, and is hopefully someone whose help you will come to welcome in the end. An attorney who specializes in NYC real estate is worth every penny, and many offer flat fees per transaction that are more reasonable than you might expect. Property issues can be so particular to neighborhood and building type that some attorneys (much like agents, lenders, and appraisers) even specialize in particular boroughs or building types. This kind of experience can save you a fortune and plenty of headaches, so I highly recommend working with a specialist. It’s best to have an attorney ready when you list your home, because they will need to begin work on the contract immediately when you accept an offer. Most agents have a list of real estate attorneys they know and trust, and will share their recommendations regardless of whether you decide to work with them. (You can find my favorite attorneys in a guide for sellers here: http://robmillis.com/selling/) And I have to reiterate what brokelin said regarding protected classes ? you absolutely must treat every buyer equally. Even you (or your board) find unpleasant have a right to buy and sell property without bias. Attorneys and agents are your buffer. Hope this helps! Rob rob.millis@corcoran.com
sabadodomingo | 9 years and 2 months ago
Having a broker as a buyer is definitely a disadvantage. Everything being equal, you will find that 10/10 times, a sellers broker will advise them to take the buyer without a broker because they will make a higher fee. Information is so readily available that there is absolutely no reason to use a broker as a buyer and you will get a better deal and more clarity into the bidding process if you don’t use one. Have a good lawyer and do your research. I recently purchased a brownstone without a broker and it was amazing how much clarity it gives you into the process…
slopefarm | 9 years and 2 months ago
This may seem counterintuitive, but we generally rent out the rental in ourhouse ourselves, without a broker, even though the tenant pays the fee, but I am reluctant to go FSBO when I sell my house, even though i would save the fee. The reason we do not use a broker for the rental is that i do not want an intermediary filtering who i might consider renting to. I want to have met them and, if there are several applicants, be able to choose. For selling, I would be concerned about pricing (my house does not have a lot of obvious comps), and I am not confident I would price it well. Also, I do not want to be in the position of making representations about the house directly to would be buyers. I want an intermediary who knows how to field questions and answer them.
bradeichmann | 9 years and 2 months ago
Use a broker…just not in this market. You can hire a professional photographer, a stager and list on streeteasy/NYT for 1/8th the cost of a broker. Just doesn’t make sense. If you want to know how much to list for, you can find comparables easily on streeteasy as well.
slopefarm | 9 years and 2 months ago
You can find comps easily if your house comps easily. Not every house does. Some are similar to the housing stock in the neighborhood and some are more singular, whether for good or bad. Also, you have to be honest with yourself about what the comps are telling you. make sure to bracket — see what sells for more and for less and figure out what accounts for the variances. No point in pocketing 3-5% on saved commission but wondering if i left more than that on the bargaining table.
E_Minor | 9 years and 2 months ago
I sold my coop by myself in 2011, but I did end up having to pay the buyers broker his 3% fee. The market was so bad then, that we really did need the buyers broker to pull the deal over the line. Having said that, in this strong market, you really could sell it yourself. Tips: 1) Take really good complementary pics of each room, get a friend or hire someone if you can’t do this. 2) Build your own website. call it yourstreetname.com. Do a good job with this 3) Post a clear floorplan on the website. 4) Advertise on NYTimes and Streeteasy. Offer the 3% buyers brokers fee. 5) Schedule open houses every Sunday for a few weeks. 6) Some brokers will badger you to take their clients low ball bid. Just ignore them and don’t take it personally.
firstmediation | 9 years and 2 months ago
I believe that if you have an accurate idea of the “value” of your home, and if you are willing to do some minimal cleaning up/painting to make your place show to its advantage, you do not need a broker at all. And I really do not understand why anyone would pay a broker so much money for so little work, UNLESS they did not know the value of their home and they needed the broker to guide them about pricing. But there are now tools for doing that that you can access yourself without a broker. I have sold twice without a broker with excellent results both times. The advertising part is really simple in the internet age with this website and with Streeteasy.com. Forget paper ads… I worked with a “stager” who for a minimal price came and walked through my home and send me a 3 page list of things she recommended I do that would make my home show better. I incorporated about 1/3 of what she suggested, but it was helpful to see her list which included things that were not intuitive, like leave the shower curtain closed. If you do list without a broker, you need to have your real estate lawyer lined up in advance because as the seller, you want to have someone working for you when you make a deal with the other side. The seller’s lawyer prepares the contract and nothing is a done deal until the contract is signed (and in a coop, until the Board acts on the buyer’s application). Good luck!
hhcguy | 9 years and 2 months ago
A broker will always provide the best execution. The major brokers maintain a “Cartel” to keep fees at 6%. A sale at 800,00 yields a 48,000 fee. A sale at 1.6 million 96,000\. Same amount of work. It comes down performance for dollars paid. Tough to justify paying a 96,000 fee.
pps_wannabe | 9 years and 2 months ago
We purchased a home using a broker. The unique scenario with our deal was that the broker was the seller’s broker also, and the owners didn’t want to publicize that their home was for sale (At All). So, it was up to the broker to find a buyer amongst her own set of clients who had been searching. We just so happened to be the perfect match. If they had advertised with or without the broker, they might have been able to get a bigger sale price. But, for them, the privacy was the main issue.
bradeichmann | 9 years and 2 months ago
“No point in pocketing 3-5% on saved commission but wondering if i left more than that on the bargaining table” ~slopefarm then price high!
slopefarm | 9 years and 2 months ago
Gres, here is why your advice does not always suffice. 12 years ago, we tried to sell our brownstone coop FSBO. We thought we’d priced it pretty well but, in a rising market, we received only one lowball offer over several weeks, a good 20% off ask. We pulled it off the market, consulted with two realtors, both advised that we should ask a bit higher than we were asking, we granted a co-exclusive, listed at the higher price and within a week came to terms at exactly the new higher ask. Several factors in play. 1) I think people like to lowball FSBO offerings because they figure there is more play, given the lack of a fee. 2) I think it helps to know have a professional opinion about value and comps before listing. 3) They probably marketed it better — photos, wording the listing, etc. I do know that, for my fee, I got a much higher price than I was getting on my own. And we didn’t go back and re-stage the apartment. We were still living there. So three is a value to saving the fee, but also a value in relying on the professionals, and perhaps a little bravado in the assertion that there is no value added.
boredatwork | 9 years and 2 months ago
It seems easier than ever to find comps, average and median prices in your neighborhood and per sq ft prices for similar properties. So I dont think pricing would be the issue. Marketing is not as easy, but a great website and pics should make a big difference. Paying a stager for advice or staging works too. As a seller, you have to decide if the broker is providing you 3% or 6% of marketing power over what you can charge on your own. I think @daveinbedstuy’s advice is spot on. If you offer a co-broker fee you can get the traffic and save lots. I have never tried FSBO, but with a renovated legal two family in Carroll Gardens, I dont think I will have too much trouble in this market. I can’t imagine a broker will provide me with $180,000 in value, and certainly not as @robertmills claims, pay for itself “several times over.”