Enclosing coal chute

The terminology in NYC is very confusing for homeowners because “plumber” can cover both people who do traditional water/gas/waste pipes (install sinks etc), but also people who are highly specialized mechanical heating engineers for hydronic/steam boilers who hold a master plumber license. And then there are firms who do both types of “plumbing” including having proper heating experts (and others who do not). I say this not as an expert in the licensing system, but as a homeowner who had to go through this learning curve!

We’re lucky to have a few genuine expert professional heating engineers who regularly post in these forums.

brooklyndempsey

in General Discussion 4 years ago

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Guest User | 4 years ago

string(1) "3"
string(6) "202271"

Like most townhouses in Brooklyn, I’ve got a coal chute in the front of my building that goes to the cellar. I’ve got a metal hatch outside and then the chute is open into the cellar.

Now that it’s summer, I’ve been thinking about how I can improve this space to better weatherproof it. Has anyone done something like this?

I was thinking that I could potentially frame out the opening in the cellar and then create a weatherproofed and insulated door. I mostly want to keep pests, moisture, and cold out (to the extent that can be reasonably accomplished, it is a cellar no matter what) Would love to see how other people have sealed this up. Thanks!

brooklyndempsey | 4 years ago

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We have the same type of chute, metal hatch and framed with a door. Ours is an uninsulated interior door which seems to work quite well. The hatch is pretty solid and you get a little draft but not enough to have felt the need to seal it better than this. If you had a fully finished space maybe an insulated door would be worth it; ours is a mechanical/workshop area.

cate | 4 years ago

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Be careful. The cellar (and any boiler) need a source of fresh air all year round.

Guest User | 4 years ago

string(1) "3"
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Does the cellar need a source of outside air though @Cate?

I can understand if there’s combustion occurring that adequate fresh air needs to be available. What’s ambient in the cellar may not be enough on its own though if you don’t have a door sealing the cellar from the basement level then maybe that’s not an issue? Maybe one of the HVAC pros here knows.

I’d love to better understand the conditions where sealing the coal chute causes an issue. @LMiller, thanks, I had considered just a simple door too. The cellar is finished but something feels better than nothing.

Guest User | 4 years ago

string(1) "3"
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You need the Fresh air depending on what is being vented. Also you need the chute for a boiler room engineer to access if needed. You can have a door as long as there is also a vent (if needed). All of this is dependent on your hvac equipment.

slimc | 4 years ago

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I have a gas boiler and hwh in my boiler room with a duct leading to the vent in the metal coal chute hatch. I too would love to find a solution to keep weather and pests out of the basement. Not sure how to work around that fresh air duct, though. Also wondering if the fresh air vent is only necessary for the boiler? Does the HWH need the fresh air vent?

Guest User | 4 years ago

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https://www.thespruce.com/venting-a-water-heater-2719061 My understanding is if it’s gas then yes. Some have their own vents like the tankless hot water heaters. I’ll let the plumbers weigh in.

slimc | 4 years ago

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I don’t want to confuse the vent for combustible gases with the fresh air intake vent. I have a vent that goes straight up the chimney for the hwh and boiler. In addition I have the fresh air intake vent from the cellar hatch to the boiler room. I think the spruce article references the chimney vent.

Guest User | 4 years ago

string(1) "3"
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Yes that is correct Slimc. But it’s equally possible to have a combustible vent go out through a different penetration. Some tankless boiler for example have their own fresh air vent that sits within the chimney In those situations you may not need a separate fresh air intake. if that’s your only unit that requires fresh air. The spruce article is a bit confusing, I agree. However it makes it clear that gas units need fresh air which I thought was the question?

Guest User | 4 years ago

string(1) "3"
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Here’s what was in the Spruce article

Direct-Vent Water Heaters
With a direct-vent system, air for combustion is drawn from a vent pipe that runs through an exterior wall or the roof. Exhaust gases are vented outdoors through a separate vent duct or through a separate chamber of the same pipe (this requires a double-wall vent duct). Direct-vent systems essentially “breathe” outdoor air, so they are not subject to the effects of backdrafting in the home.

My interpretation is if you have a direct vent system (and no other gas units), there is no need for the FA separately. I’d recommend checking with a plumber as there are other factors such as how air tight your home is etc and whether the unit relies on additional fresh air from an Fresh Air intake.

slimc | 4 years ago

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Makes sense now – thanks for the clarification.

Guest User | 4 years ago

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Np. I realized later that I wasn’t clear. However, I didn’t want to keep adding more comments and unintentionally adding more confusion.

I’m exploring this right now and my GC didn’t know the answer. Not all plumbers will know either. The HVAC people are usually the ones installing the FA intakes. Guessing masterplumber or eman may know.

brooklyndempsey | 4 years ago

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If you don’t know where your combustion air vent is you may want to ask your boiler maintenance technician. It can come through a penetration in the hatch, or some other part of the building (mine is in the back of the house). Depends where your boiler room is, type of equipment and how it was installed, and the mechanical code has specific requirements. In my hatch I have gas coming in, and that pipe goes through the door frame.

cate | 4 years ago

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Our cellar needs way more ventilation and fresh air than it currently has to keep it from getting musty. Does anyone have a suggestion for how this should best be done, who should do it, and where any such vents might go? We have the standard 20 foot width and a lot of it is already taken up with hatch, pipes, windows, doors, you name it.

Guest User | 4 years ago

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My HVAC person did the calculation for the Fresh air based on the equipment installed in the boiler room. My architect also recommended a fan. My opinion would be to hire a mechanical engineer to actually take a look at everything. Perhaps they can do it quickly if it’s just evaluating the boiler room and making recommendations.

I think there is a gap with regards to this. I see the venting and sizing of equipment come up often. Some GCs, architects bring in a mechanical engineer but if that wasn’t done, there may be a slightly messy situation that needs to be untangled.

Master Plumber seems to be filling this gap as a plumber but most plumbers I have met aren’t able to help with this. Some HVAC people but I do think an engineer will provide clarity.