Deck Stair Height Question

“CH99 commentator” has a history of over 25 years of business & friendship associations with architects, structural engineers, specialty contractors, as well Mr. Jonathan Butler the founder of The Brownstoner (who sold the site after many years). The original concern from “CH99” which was about RESPECT over the OP questioning their contractor’s correct deck staircase arm-rail legal height seems to have had ‘a rolling stone’ momentum and is “a gone-done-one” at this point.

Heck, I’ve had to quote actual code to building inspectors trying to write violations for legal conditions. If DOB doesn’t even know their own code, why should we believe anyone else does unless they can actually cite it? I’m glad carriagehouse has had good experiences with their contractors’ detailed code knowledge. Unfortunately that is not the most common experience.

Heck, I’ve had to quote actual code to building inspectors trying to write violations for legal conditions. If DOB doesn’t even know their own code, why should we believe anyone else does unless they can actually cite it? I’m glad carriagehouse has had good experiences with their contractors’ detailed code knowledge. Unfortunately that is not the most common experience.

Carriagehouse, with all due respect, i am a contractor. we are all over the place in terms of our knowledge and in truth, some of what i am hearing from younger contractors coming up shows complete ineptitude in things that they claim to be “experts” at (things they claim to do everyday) and when these people speak they often speak with confidence (they stand there and tell me things about codes and product that are not true with a straight face as if they believe them themselves; i heard something last week about a ben moore paint product that was not true; the person who spoke should have just remained silent). As a contractor, i can usually spot BS and ineptitude but for homeowners this is a disaster.

Many of the people working on houses today refuse to listen to older people and will not open a book at night and research anything let alone codes or ever bother to call a manufacturer and ask the correct way to do something when they are having a problem with a product (i am 59 years old and first used Ben Moore product in the house i grew up in the 1970’s and i call Ben Moore’s product tech team at least once a year with a question; these folks today do not believe in asking for help; they see it as a “character flaw” to admit they might not know something and the customer gets screwed as a result; i hear the stories all the time and it is getting worse).

In so far as us being licensed: The licensing process and test does not ask us anything about codes or construction or product knowledge. the city is as inept as some of the people doing the work and i am hoping to get to meet with the City Council’s Consumer Affairs Committee to discuss some of the issues and suggest this: Require that all contractors be required to put this statement in all contracts 1. All local building codes will be followed 2. All manufacturers instructions and industry standards will be followed unless there is a compelling reason to do otherwise and such reason is stated in writing to customer and approval is granted by customer in writing”. This will make it easier for customers to withhold payment or sue contractors and win (they are not winning the lawsuits because they are being allowed too much leeway in how they install things when sometimes they are going against long established industry or manufacturer standards often in the interest of time and money).

in so far as the insurance. i am more afraid of my insurance company and their regulations than i am of the city and their rarely enforced laws. But most people don’t follow the rules their insurance lays out.

In this day and age, it is going to be up to the customer to either ask the contractor to produce the code in writing or look the code up themselves. we cannot trust anyone anymore. It is a joke. The city makes more and more rules and laws and they are not fixing anything. All it does is get harder and more costly for contractors who were RAISED to do the right thing to do business.

In so far as the larger home inspections i am being called to do – people are asking me specific questions about projects and i am doing my best to answer them and if i do not have the answers on the spot, i can usually find them as i write the report. If i really do not know the answer or they are asking me an engineering question that i am not qualified to speak about i look them in the eye and tell them “i do not know” and tell them how to get the answer (i direct them in the report). I did an inspection for a 30 something year old single female homeowner on Friday and today i just contacted Lee Dan access control to get some information for her and have also contacted a roofing supply for more input so i can give her PROFESSIONAL advice – not some BS i might “think”.

I hope to become a NYC DOB Licensed Expeditor (“filing representative” so that i will have at least some authority to look up codes and state them in home inspection reports for my customers or even on line, here.

even though i used to build balustrades for staircases (and followed the codes to the t because i am afraid of the courts), i stayed out of this because it was a deck question and i knew there was confusion over a handrail on a staircase and a top rail around a deck.

Steve
Brownstone Home Inspection LLC
brownstonehomeinspection.com

It goes without saying, legitimate contractors in NYC are licensed, insured, and OSHA certified – understandably having knowledge of the DOB & NYFD codes.

Carriagehouse99 – I had a truly crap week, I was cruising the forum, I came across the thread, and I found your second comment to be weirdly gate-keeping, and I bit. I could have left it alone, perhaps I should have, but I didn’t. Codes are confusing. This is a place for people to get help, information, direction etc. Should you listen to and trust your contractor? Ideally, yes! But from a position of having very little concrete knowledge of the building code I think it’s totally reasonable to make sure what you’re being told is true by coming to this type of forum. Why else is this forum here?

Carriagehouse99 – I had a truly crap week, I was cruising the forum, I came across the thread, and I found your second comment to be weirdly gate-keeping, and I bit. I could have left it alone, perhaps I should have, but I didn’t. Codes are confusing. This is a place for people to get help, information, direction etc. Should you listen to and trust your contractor? Ideally, yes! But from a position of having very little concrete knowledge of the building code I think it’s totally reasonable to make sure what you’re being told is true by coming to this type of forum. Why else is this forum here?

Maggie O. I find it odd that you are addressing a commentator here after 2 weeks have passed, in lieu of not having directed your observations previously to the OP. Not to beat a dead horse, but the point was about the OP not “hearing their contractor’s voice”, subsequently asking others outside of their contractor’s voice to supply suggestions to bolster the contractor’s statements to be true…and genuine.

> @carriagehouse99
> Pls note how easily convenient it is to search the gov. agencies NYC Bldg Codes.
i find it disingenuous for you to claim that finding specific information that is easily understandable by a layman through google searches if you don’t know where to look. if you’ve worked with reputable contractors for 25 years you know that a “trust but verify” attitude is often wise when it comes to codes, which are often inscrutable and internally referential to the point that they can be difficult to interpret even by professionals (hence the entire field of code consultants). also – this board is used by plenty of professionals who willingly provide useful info to the public so coming to this board for this type of information is exactly the point of this board.

> @carriagehouse99
> Pls note how easily convenient it is to search the gov. agencies NYC Bldg Codes.
i find it disingenuous for you to claim that finding specific information that is easily understandable by a layman through google searches if you don’t know where to look. if you’ve worked with reputable contractors for 25 years you know that a “trust but verify” attitude is often wise when it comes to codes, which are often inscrutable and internally referential to the point that they can be difficult to interpret even by professionals (hence the entire field of code consultants). also – this board is used by plenty of professionals who willingly provide useful info to the public so coming to this board for this type of information is exactly the point of this board.

Cornell, The NY State and the NYC code “to be specific”, for deck staircase arm rails are the same. You are misinterpreting the 42″ height, which is for deck railings…not for deck staircase arm rails.
I have been working with Brooklyn architects and reputable contractors for over 25 years and I suppose my so called attitude stems from finding your “second-guessing” your contractor discussing his thoughts with you that the ‘the stair arm rail height can be 36″ high and that @ a 42″ height is awkward’, leading you to check here w. the public, disingenuous.

Thanks for your reply.

Isn’t that the NY state code, and not NYC specific code? For example, it says that guard rails only need to be 34 to 38, but the Nyc specific deck regulation specifics says 42.

And no need for the attitude. I find a lot of this confusing, as I am sure others on here do. So I was just asking if anyone else found it less confusing and had an idea.

Thanks

Thanks for your reply.

Isn’t that the NY state code, and not NYC specific code? For example, it says that guard rails only need to be 34 to 38, but the Nyc specific deck regulation specifics says 42.

And no need for the attitude. I find a lot of this confusing, as I am sure others on here do. So I was just asking if anyone else found it less confusing and had an idea.

Thanks

S W, if you don’t have architectural plans spec’ing the staircase arm rails, you might consider your contractor’s well informed professional opinion.
Pls note how easily convenient it is to search the gov. agencies NYC Bldg Codes. See pics.
The exception to the 34″ to 38″ ht code for residential property staircase arm rails is that ‘some’ commercial property staircase arm rails shall be 42″ high.
[IMG_1962](//muut.com/u/brownstoner/s1/:brownstoner:uBd7:img_1962.jpg.jpg) [IMG_1961](//muut.com/u/brownstoner/s1/:brownstoner:dtez:img_1961.jpg.jpg)