Deck and stairs - two levels down

sjq, I have only seen a fire escape stair attached to the deck which goes down to a lower deck from where there is a stair to the garden.

Guest User | 6 years and 1 month ago

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sjq2102 | 6 years and 1 month ago

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We are considering building a deck w stairs down to our backyard.

Our issue is, the back yard is one level below the front yard (street level), meaning the back of our parlor floor is actually two floors (garden plus basement) above the back yard.

Has anyone built or even seen decks/stairs built that go two floors down ? Attaching a photo with the parlor floor circled (sorry not the best photo, ignore the pergola we’d have to move/remove that). We could build one giant long staircase down I suppose. Any ideas and rec’s of deck specialists would be welcome.

[97D95675-9525-4C03-8CF4-F163B14A9832](//muut.com/u/brownstoner/s3/:brownstoner:UwKz:97d9567595254c038cf4f163b14a9832.jpeg.jpg)

jimhillra | 6 years and 1 month ago

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From the picture you posted, I would say that the lowest level is the basement, above that is the parlor, and above that is the second floor, and that is where you want the deck. The parlor floor is considered the first floor.

Regardless of how the levels are defined, the code for decks states that a deck can only be at the first level above grade. In this picture, that would be the floor that already has the door and steps. The second floor can have a balcony, which has its own set of code limitations, one of which is that it cannot have stairs to the ground.

In short, what you are asking about is not allowed by code.

sjq2102 | 6 years and 1 month ago

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Thanks Jim, much appreciated. Was familiar with a lot of the codes around decks, but definitely missed the one that it cannot be two floors up. Some of my neighbors have done this in recent gut renos, but I’m guessing they just aren’t up to code. Am I able to have no deck and just build stairs down with no deck? Much appreciated

jimhillra | 6 years and 1 month ago

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Sorry, but stairs to the second floor above grade are prohibited, with or without a deck, balcony, or otherwise. They even go so far as to distinguish between “stairs” and “steps”. Steps are what you currently have, and do not exceed a full story. Stairs exceed a full story and are not allowed in rear yards. They added that to the code in response to the tenements, to prevent people from subdividing the building in such a way that the only entrance to a dwelling unit might be such stairs.

chemosphere | 6 years and 1 month ago

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Yet another nonesensical law. Backyard stairs from upper levels are extremely common in Chicago and San Francisco. No reason why these should still be prohibited.

sjq2102 | 6 years and 1 month ago

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And so is there any way that such steps can pass off as a “fire escape” 😉 As in can I have very narrow steps that cling to the back of the house?

jimhillra | 6 years and 1 month ago

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By code, fire escapes have a drop down ladder from their lowest landing, not stairs. I’ve tried this and had it rejected before.

chemosphere | 6 years and 1 month ago

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Jim, could one file an alt. 1 and build an extension whose sole purpose was to enclose an indoor, rear flight of stairs?

jimhillra | 6 years and 1 month ago

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That’s an interesting question…

I would say that in theory, yes, one could. If you’re talking about creating an enclosed stair, which different residents might access, then you’re essentially creating a stair tower, which has its own set of rules.

Also, in addition to zoning issues like lot coverage and floor area, it would probably raise other code issues. I could see it impacting light and air requirements as the enclosure could take up window space, and windows in the enclosure would not be able to be used for the existing spaces if the stair is not within the dwelling unit.

It’s an interesting idea from an academic perspective, and I’d be interested in delving into it at some point just to see what it would take, but it’s not a simple yes or no answer, and the answer would be specific to the circumstances and configuration of the particular building.

sjq2102 | 6 years and 1 month ago

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Thanks everyone. Not sure I fully understand the Alt1 extension to enclose indoor rear stairs but everyone definitely gave me a lot to think about. Sincere thanks,

urbanexteriors | 6 years and 1 month ago

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Go to homeowners night, and ask the DoB in person…Tuesday @ 4pm…210 Joralemon Street, 8th floor

Guest User | 6 years and 1 month ago

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I’m curious about the fire escape rules as well… Is one allowed to have a ladder from 2nd floor to 1st then a stair? Or is the ladder only allowed from parlor to the ground?

jimhillra | 6 years and 1 month ago

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The ladder is only allowed from the bottom landing to the ground, and from top landing to the roof. All others must be stairs.

Guest User | 6 years and 1 month ago

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thank you Jim!