Convince DOB with no CofO

We are working on permits for renovation of our pre-C of O house. It’s currently taxed as a 2-family, but the DOB is insisting on additional documentation to give us the permits to do the work as a 2-family, without giving us any guidance as to what they require. We’ve provided utility bills for the two separate meters/accounts, title search when we bought the place that indicated 2 Family, drawings from previous renovations, etc – but they are not budging. ACRIS refers to it as “Dwelling only – 2 Family.” We want to maintain it as a 2-family because we bought it having been told it was a 2-family and we will want to use it as such eventually, but also to avoid triggering a tax increase.

Questions:
1) Any expediters out there (either a referral or yourself) who have successfully negotiated this sort of situation?

2) Have you ever gotten a definitive answer from the DOB as to what information they require to certify as a 2-family?

3) How likely is a significant tax increase in this situation, if we need to give in and get a 1-family C of O?

Guest User | 5 years and 11 months ago

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stevecym | 5 years and 10 months ago

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op: the old titles are kept in an office called the City Register. they are on line back to 1966. so that office should have the older titles for your residence in a musty room someplace..

stevecym | 5 years and 10 months ago

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OP, when you said title search that indicated 2 family, did that include a historic title search? or just a summary of what someone saw on a recent title or perhaps they make an assumption based on what other docs tell them. i am assuming that they did not go back to day naught or i would not be asking. but perhaps the original title? (if title co’s reference that, then i am sorry for bringing this up and perhaps you or someone else know that answer; i own a house and do not know where they pull their info from). i am not sure how to do this here, but when i was a teen in suffolk county i was interested in some old houses in the area and went to a county office and read the original deeds going back over a hundreds years. very descriptive. perhaps in addition to what i assume to be a summary of the title search that the title co provided, you need to find that county or city office where the deeds are kept and read the earliest deed for your house and take a photo of it.

i only thought of this after seeing what Laurie Coots said. btw, my 3rd great grandpa rents had a house in bushwick in the 1880’s and what laurie is saying and what i just suggested is something i have always wanted to research on that house. thank you Laurie for mentioning the Historical Society.

lcoots | 5 years and 10 months ago

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One other thing you may want to try. Visit the Brooklyn Historical Society and ask to see all the documents on your house. I found an old COO from 1923 that clearly showed a 2-family.

lcoots | 5 years and 10 months ago

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One other thing you may want to try. Visit the Brooklyn Historical Society and ask to see all the documents on your house. I found an old COO from 1923 that clearly showed a 2-family.

citykitty | 5 years and 10 months ago

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oh, and the expeditor was no help in this matter…

citykitty | 5 years and 10 months ago

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I had the same issue. They wouldn’t budge and I kept fighting showing the 2 electric meters, got a letter from Con Ed, and I even found plumbing diagrams submitted to the DOB from the 1950s that showed our house as 2 family. They were basically trying to get us to file for an Alt-1 instead of Alt-2 renovation (which is way more expensive). They said I could only file as a single family from the original plan filed in the 1800s! I plan on continuing this fight.

cate | 5 years and 10 months ago

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This may not be germane to the situation, but curious if you think the house is an original one-family converted to a two-family or an original two-family. Original two-families tend to have identically sized bathrooms stacked on top of each other on the second and third floors between the stairs and the rear side room.

resident2 | 5 years and 10 months ago

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If you are claiming that it is a two family then get a letter of “No Objection” as a two family.
The Department of Finance will tax it as whatever you are using it as, that does not make it a legal two family.
Yes, a 1-3 is the same tax class, but if you do a large “improvement” the department of finance can & will increase your taxes, based on the improvement.

shahnandersen

in General Discussion 5 years and 10 months ago

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If there is an iCard for your building, maybe that would help: https://www1.nyc.gov/site/hpd/index.page

stevecym | 5 years and 11 months ago

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RE: taxes. i think 1-3 family units are in the same tax class (tax rate), so that will not impact the taxes if you move from 2 to 1 or the other way. what would impact the taxes is changes in value (as opposed to rate) and when you file the reno, the city knows you did something to the value (i suspect).

there was an article about this in the NYT some years back about people buying pretty run down brownstones in Harlem with fairly low taxes. as soon as they renovated them, they found their taxes doubled and tripled and more.

i am curious though. my house is identical to my neighbors but some of us pay a little more or a little less in taxes. I wonder if the city does a drive by every year or so to look at the condition to assess the value. it seemed when we put windows in, our taxes went up a little. or perhaps the sale price give them a reason to increase the value?