Cold weather challenges when heating with mini splits

No boiler, no natural gas and no oil. Just good old fashioned electric energy. If you are doing a gut then, if budget alllows, consider a solar panel system on the roof. I am disappointed I didn’t do that. I would have ended up with essentially no electric bill either.

monaco

in General Discussion 7 years and 5 months ago

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beneec | 7 years and 5 months ago

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Hello Brownstoner Forum,

This is our first winter in our newly renovated townhouse where we replaced the existing forced air heating system with a Mitsubishi Hyperheat Mini Split system.

Now that the temperature has been really low, between 10-20 F, consistently for days (but no snow), we are putting the system to its first real test.

We have been experiencing large swings in the performance of the system in the past days, that cannot be explained by the swings in the outdoor temperature. The indoor unit in our living room was blowing 65F air at one point (the room temperature was set to 70F) while just a few hours later the temp of the blown air went up to 75F. In general the system struggles to keep the temperature at 70F on our parlor floor, while it is performing much better but not flawlessly on the top floor. I do see swings in the temperature of the air blown, but in general the temperatures are much higher: between 70F and 85F

It is a 3 story brownstone with a garden rental and our duplex on the top 2 floors. We have one outdoor unit for every floor (MXZ-3 C30NAHZ). The outdoor unit for the rental is in the backyard and our outdoor units are on the roof. I went through the installation specs and we seem to be well within the limits of distance / height difference bw the indoor and the outdoor units. We have individual remote thermostats for each of the indoor units (MRCH1).

My questions:
– what can cause the above described performance swings in the system?
– why is the indoor unit blowing colder air than the room temperature when it is supposed to be heating
– what can explain the performance differences between the systems for our two different floors?
– would wind protection for the outdoor units on the roof help? if so, how should we do it?

thank you.

Bence

namahs | 7 years and 5 months ago

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I’m no expert but I do have Fujitsu ductless units for a few years. From my experience, when the outdoor temp drops below 30 degrees. The unit struggles to blow consistent hot air in. I heard the same from my friends.
There are newer units that are more effective on lower temps now. As far as if they can really perform, thats a different story.

CarmenR | 7 years and 5 months ago

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We have spits but also have baseboard and radiators for this reason. We heard from multiple sources that the splits have a hard time keeping up if the temp is below 30 consistently. I would honestly check with your hvac sub or contractor and ask them-ours very specifically advised us against relying on splits only for heat for this reason. Good luck.

Master Plvmber | 7 years and 5 months ago

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The technology isn’t there yet. I routinely install boiler-heated radiator heating systems in homes that are also installing mini-splits and VRF systems for heat. They work fine until about 30° outdoor temperatures and then they don’t.

CarmenR | 7 years and 5 months ago

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I will update to say that we’ve been using the splits in some rooms to suppliment our radiators and they do seem to be pumping in hot air, however I definitely wouldn’t want to rely on them for 100% of our heat. Our house isn’t quite at “passive” level but it’s very well insulated and it’s still a bit chilly in rooms with a lot of windows during this cold snap even with the radiators running basically 24/7 for the past few days. I don’t even want to think what our electric bill would be if we relied on the splits alone, although the air coming out of them is, in fact, hot.

monaco | 7 years and 5 months ago

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The technology is available with mini splits now and I use them exclusively to heat our 3,000 sq ft brownstone.. Look into the Fujitsu extra low temperature heating or Mitsubishi hyper heat. I have the Fujitsu installed, 2 exterior condensers (36k btu each) and 8 interior air handlers (2 per floor). The cost during winter months has added approximately $200/month to electric bill. I would estimate during this unusual cold snap the cost this month could double to $400.

CarmenR | 7 years and 5 months ago

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Oh, I should mention we have Fujitsu units with 7 total handlers on 3 floors, 2600 sqft, 2 compressors on the roof. I am not sure of the BTUs anymore. They’re two years old now.

monaco | 7 years and 5 months ago

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CarmenR if you don’t mind providing some numbers what is your heating cost of the radiators?

CarmenR | 7 years and 5 months ago

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Firstslope our gas bill is typically around $100 a month but I imagine it’ll probably be closer to $150-$175 this month. That’s for hot water, heating and cooking. We have electric radiant heat in our bathrooms but its a negligible amount of $ on our electric bill (and we only really keep one running as we don’t regularly use the other full bathrooms.)

monaco | 7 years and 5 months ago

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CarmenR got it. So seems roughly equivalent monthly cost to run a mini split electric heat pump vs. natural gas radiator heat system in winter months.

CarmenR | 7 years and 5 months ago

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Firstslope- maybe I’m misunderstanding, but it looked like you said your electric bill would be $400 addl to run your splits (so that would make your bill over $400 for electric) versus my estimate of $150ish total for gas (including all gas, not just the heat.) That doesn’t seem to be equivalent, unless I’m reading your statement wrong.

monaco | 7 years and 5 months ago

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Many variables, for example house size and usage day/night. When all considers the mini splits are equivalent or cheaper to run than a natural gas radiant heat system.

stickerhappy | 7 years and 5 months ago

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Carmen,
Do you have the hyper heat model or one of the units that is specifically designed to be more effective at down to 0-10degrees or so? We are looking at those as opposed to the more standard split units that become less effective as you go under 30 degrees.

CarmenR | 7 years and 5 months ago

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Sticker I think we have regular ones. As I mentioned, we haven’t had an issue with the air coming from them being cool, they’re just expensive to run so we almost never use them for heat.

Master Plvmber | 7 years and 5 months ago

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The functional limits of mini splits /heat pumps in our part of the world is widely recognized and acknowledged in the HVAC industry. At some point, even though they may blow warm air, their efficiency drops drastically and they become impractical to run.

monaco | 7 years and 5 months ago

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Master Plumber, our opinions diverge on this topic. At first I was skeptical too, but my experience has been wonderful for the past two winters. The system has been very energy efficient, highly controllable with multiple zones, asthetialy pleasing using in-wall/ceiling ducted air handlers and of course cheaper to purchase, install and maintain.

namahs | 7 years and 5 months ago

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@firstslope Can you give a breakdown of your ductless? Which model and how many unit inside? Also what temp do you leave it on? Is your house attached? We also want the ductless to work for primary heating. But for us since we have the older model, it doesn’t consistently blow warm air in freezing temp and it struggles to keep temp warm unless the fan is on med to high. We also didn’t like the blown air in our face feeling.

monaco | 7 years and 5 months ago

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@namahs, I installed 2 exterior Fujitsu Extra Low Temperature Heating condensers (AOU36RLXFZH) at 36k BTU or 3 ton each and 8 interior ducted air handlers (2 per floor, ranging from ARU7RLF to ARU12RLF). My house is an attached brownstone with a 17×45 footprint with 4 floors + cellar and this system is our only source of heat. I set the heat to 70 all floors, additionally I replaced all windows, doors and insulated the roof. The system is very efficient (adds approximately about $200/month to the electric bill – but we use the ‘set it and forget it’ approach.

stickerhappy | 7 years and 5 months ago

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Firstslope, who did your installation and would you recommend them?