Can't quite afford to buy an apartment ? Partners wanted for townhouse project.

ejalbk: What part of ‘matches requirements’ is unclear? 1031 is not available on your OWN property but on whole or part of property being used as business income (aka rental)

cmu

in General Discussion 9 years and 9 months ago

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briannarobinson22 | 9 years and 9 months ago

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My wife and I (an urban planner and lawyer (formerly of Borough Pres Markowitz office) are looking for partners interested in buying a lot or a townhouse to renovate or construct a 3 or 4 unit building. I have a number of properties of interest, and many of these involve pursuing a rezoning or variance. I have some skills and a dream, but don’t quite have the cash or all the expertise necessary to get a project like this off the ground. Hopefully you can contribute some professional skills and be someone we would want to build a home with! If we can find 3 parties splitting the costs and work is possible to save 20-40% on the costs of owning your own apartment!

Get in touch and let me know! (juddms@gmail.com) or post here!

Judd

daveinbedstuy | 9 years and 9 months ago

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If I may be so bold as to say, good luck with that. You are opening up at least 3 or 4 different cans of worms and none of them are appropriate for first time homeowners.

EJR | 9 years and 9 months ago

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Is there a reason you are interested in doing this other than for perceived cost efficiencies? As DIBS mentions, there are a host of major issues to contend with here, including creating a formal agreement governing ownership and usage rights with your partners. If you are interested in townhouse-style living, an existing co-op or condo in a small walkup/townhouse seems like your best bet, perhaps one that requires some work, since you seem interested in that.

chemosphere | 9 years and 9 months ago

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Tenants in Common setups are much more popular in San Francisco. I don’t know why they never took off here.
I know somebody who did this successfully – 2 couples co-bought two fixer-uppers on one lot in South Slope. It can be done.

daveinbedstuy | 9 years and 9 months ago

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> @chemosphere
> Tenants in Common setups are much more popular in San Francisco. I don’t know why they never took off here.

Probably because New Yorkers are more paranoid, neurotic, difficult and litigious.

EJR | 9 years and 9 months ago

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> @daveinbedstuy
> @chemosphereTenants in Common setups are much more popular in San Francisco. I don’t know why they never took off here. Probably because New Yorkers are more paranoid, neurotic, difficult and litigious.

Or, perhaps because there is a larger pool of co-ops and condos in townhouses in New York than in SF, which makes the TIC arrangement less of a necessity. I don’t know if this is true, I’m just wondering if it’s the case.

chemosphere | 9 years and 9 months ago

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We looked into this when we were looking for a house. In some ways it makes sense. For example, say 3000 sq ft townhouses in Crown Heights are going for $1.2m, but you only can afford $600k, and you only need 1500 sq ft. You’d rather have a basement and yard-type set-up, and that money doesn’t get you this in fancier neighborhoods. There are not enough condo or co-ops like this in outer neighborhoods yet.
The easiest way to do this is find one person who has the $1.2m up front, does the purchase and the renovation, and then turns the house into condos and sells you one. I know someone who did this with a 4 unit building in Prospect heights. It was a pain, but they pulled it off.
As for us, we just ended up finding a cheaper neighborhood: Flatbush.

EJR | 9 years and 9 months ago

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> @chemosphere
> The easiest way to do this is find one person who has the $1.2m up front, does the purchase and the renovation, and then turns the house into condos and sells you one.

I’m interested to know more about this, since the math doesn’t seem to work for the apartment hunter with $600,000 to spend. If someone else buys the house for $1.2 million and then turn it into condos, between the renovation and legal fees, my guess is they’re looking at an all-in cost of $2 million. Assuming they turned the 3,000 sq foot building into 2 units, each unit would need to sell for well over $1 million for the investor to make any money. Another issue I see here is whether or not a bank will lend on a 2 unit condo building. I would assume most people looking for an arrangement like this are not all cash buyers…

resident2 | 9 years and 9 months ago

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I have seen life long friendships destroyed in this manner, buying Real Estate in New York with partners is difficult enough, buying a home with someone you would never consider marrying is a nightmare waiting to happen. And getting out of it is worse than getting out of a bad marriage.
It takes 3 moves to buy your dream house, why do you think you first purchase should be more than you can afford now?
Buy a fixer upper co-op, in a year or so sell it, the profit is tax free giving you a bigger down payment for your next move, do it again… by your 3rd purchase you should be able to settle in.. Moving is much easier than fighting with partners.

chemosphere | 9 years and 9 months ago

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I agree with resident2. But I would add an option: buy an entire house in East Flatbush for the price of a co-op elsewhere.

EJR | 9 years and 9 months ago

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> @resident2
> Buy a fixer upper co-op, in a year or so sell it, the profit is tax free giving you a bigger down payment for your next move, do it again…

The profit is only tax-free if you reside in the property for at least 2 years. Any less than that and you are hit with hefty capital gains taxes.

resident2 | 9 years and 9 months ago

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I said live in it for a year or SO… realistically by the time you fix, move in…. refinance to get the equity out to be ready for your next move, look for your next purchase, close on it… sell you first it will be two years from your first closing….

daveinbedstuy | 9 years and 9 months ago

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> @EJR
> The profit is only tax-free if you reside in the property for at least 2 years. Any less than that and you are hit with hefty capital gains taxes.

And only tax free up to $250k for a single person and $500k for a couple. Then capital gains rates kick in where you pay a lower tax rate than your secretary.

cate | 9 years and 9 months ago

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Re San Francisco, regulations there make it nearly impossible to convert small buildings to condos. Also, lending rules in NYC make it difficult to get a mortgage on co-ops and condos in buildings with fewer than four units. Why TIC isn’t more common here I don’t know.

rh | 9 years and 9 months ago

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Would a 1031 exchange not be an option if you’re buying up?

ejalbk | 9 years and 9 months ago

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Not on a residential building.

slopefarm | 9 years and 9 months ago

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As others have mentioned , lots of ways to have this end badly if you and co-owner/developer have different incentives. I would sit down with a relatively sophisticated RE attorney to look at (1) different ways of structuring this, what works, what doesn’t, etc, (2) how to handle investment/return amongst partners with different resources and end goals, and (3) how you go about finding trustworthy people to do this with.

There are too many considerations, much of which requires some professional (legal, financial etc) thought. Good advice on this thread but get good professional advice if you are serious about pursuing this.

EJR | 9 years and 9 months ago

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> @ejalbk
> Not on a residential building.

Not on a residential building in which you reside. I believe this is permissible on a residential investment property.

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    ["level_0"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
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  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
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}

Cate- It’s not an issue to get mortgages on condos with less than 4 units. I’ve done a lot of 2 and 3 unit condos over the past few years. Same rates as you would get on 4 or more buildings.