Buying a flipped / gut renovated townhouse?
That’s good to hear, Bob Marvin.
cate
in General Discussion 2 years and 5 months ago
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cate | 2 years and 5 months ago
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Maybe you can find one recently renovated by its owner occupants. These do come up from time to time. I can think of a couple recently, one that sold for $1.8 and the other for $2.45 though it was listed for slightly less. This one I think is really beautiful. The cellar, of all things, is a work of art. Looks like all the systems are top notch. The renovation wasn’t quite finished, there were still a few things to do at the top of the house, but nothing serious. https://streeteasy.com/sale/1609709
colonialrevival | 2 years and 5 months ago
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There are plenty of “developers” who are just “sparkling flippers”, if you catch my drift.
justinromeu26 | 2 years and 5 months ago
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Right. Many developrs sit just above flippers. But at least developers are often working with new construction and that opens them to scrutiny from the authorities. Some of these flippers i can only imagine do as much work as they can without filing and no doubt they will sneak in electrical and heating work without filing and if they would make a door out of plywood, i would hate to see what is hidden in the walls. Scary stuff.
justinromeu26 | 2 years and 5 months ago
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It is always better to buy a house that has had nothing done to it as opposed to a house that has had the wrong stuff done to it.
And anyone with a college degree can probably project manage a renovation with a better outcome than people who intentionally or knowingly do things wrong. Yes, such a project will come with challenges, mistakes, and headaches but if you have someone to hold your hand, you can easily do better than these flippers.
cate | 2 years and 5 months ago
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If you are going to embark on a renovation, find an architect in your area with lots of experience doing just whatever it is you plan to do.
italianate | 2 years and 5 months ago
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The cost to renovate is much higher than it was previously. Getting an accurate figure on a gut reno is difficult. A reputable GC charges $500 PSF, and it goes up from there. You could easily double that if you have high-end finishes and a lot of structural work. Don’t forget to factor in architect fees and all the other soft costs – it gets pricey quickly. It is a long, stressful process but worth it if you have the time and capital. I would only suggest it if you plan to live in the house for many years.
colonialrevival | 2 years and 5 months ago
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[whispers] for those who live in historic districts, these costly fees can be run through the state’s historic home rehab tax credit program to the tune of a 20% tax credit of up to $50,000 per tax year.
cate | 2 years and 5 months ago
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OP, any luck? What did you decide to do?
khushksaali | 2 years and 5 months ago
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Hi again– thanks so much for your advice, everyone. This may not be the most brownstoner-approved update, but I ended up making an offer on a renovated townhouse. No word yet on acceptance. The historic rowhouses are undeniably more beautiful, and it’s cool seeing how everyone renovates while still maintaining original details, but the idea of a full reno, esp since costs have shot up, seemed too daunting for me right now.
Some thoughts on gut renos: I saw soooo many of these on my housing search. Most of them had been bought in the last year or two and flipped. I found the kitchens and bathrooms in most of them to range from a little gaudy but still cute, to butt ugly nouveau Cheesecake Factory crap. So much gold, white and black marble, cheap-seeming veneer cabinets. And you see the same exact finishes again and again, to the point where I coudl sort of identify which developer did which house just by the kitchen islands or the bathroom pendant lights. The glitzy-modern aesthetic put me off a lot of them right off the bat, but I thought maybe I could overlook that. M ore concerningly, though, I definitely noticed clumsy finishes on some of them, like crooked doorknobs and misaligned pocket doors. If the stuff I could see was a little wonky, what about the stuff I can’t?
As for who’s making these things, it can be hard to suss out who the developer is beneath all the LLCs, but I tried to do due diligence on these guys. There were three developers in particular who seemed quite uh, prolific, with several flips on the market. Some of them seemed kinda shady, a little bit new to real estate, and the speed of their renos did give me pause. They’d bought the homes for a millionish and were selling for $2.2ish-$2.5, and I wondered, what is the profit margin on that? If you subtract the cost of a high end, reputable gut (sounds like 500 psqf in this market), plus selling costs, does that math work out? It seemed a little fuzzy, and I was worried they’d cut corners on the really important stuff.
So, I decided NOT to get one of these super recent flips. But then, I saw a few gut-reno homes that had been renovated several years ago and rented out since then. The developer who did these was a large-scale investor who seemed to be a little more thoughtful and by-the-book with his renos, and I was able to find more info on his process, the contractors he worked with, etc. Not to say any of these guys are saints–ultimately, they’re all kind of sharks. But the houses felt notably less gaudy, less sloppy and slapped together. What gave me more confidence was the fact that the houses had been lived in for quite a while and weren’t brand new. It felt less likely that something would go massively wrong, and it gave me an opportunity to see the houses with a bit of wear on them.
Hopefully my instinct/research about the house I offered on will bear out, fingers crossed. If I had more cash reserves, time, energy, and expertise, I’d love to take on a reno project that preserves more lovely details, but I’m also happy with the place I (hopefully) will buy. Am also super curious about how these other flips will fare, qualitywise–I’m not 100% against them, and they could very well be decent quality, but I got kinda leery after seeing so many.
cate | 2 years and 5 months ago
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Thank you for all the info on what you’ve seen, that’s really interesting. Your decision to make an offer on a house that’s been rented out and lived in for a while sounds like a smart one. (Sounds like Dixon. I don’t have any special insider knowledge, but the quality of their work appeared above average.) Good luck!
RobertGMarvin
in General Discussion 2 years and 5 months ago
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You beat me to it Cate. I also thought Dixon. They renovated a house on Rutland Road in my neighborhood and, according to the people next door, did a pretty good job.