Building out Bedrooms in a 7 - 8 Foot Basement. Is It Comfortable?

My family is looking at a South Slope two-family, wood-framed home. It’s currently setup with two, one-bedroom units with 9 foot ceilings. There’s also an unfinished basement with 7 – 8 foot ceilings. We’re exploring finishing the basement, ideally adding two more bedrooms and a bathroom (this would make the bottom unit 3b/2ba). We’re not very tall, but don’t want to go through the work to find that it’s too unpleasant a place to live. Anyone do this and live on a short ceiling floor? Is it comfortable?

bzsvsuhcjr

in General Discussion 5 years and 11 months ago

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chemosphere | 5 years and 11 months ago

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You can have 8 foot ceilings, sprinklers, front and back exits, window wells which make the windows full size, and ceilings that are 3 3/4 feet above ground and floors that are 4 1/4 feet below ground. In the eyes of NYC, since it’s less than 50% above grade, this cannot be made legal to sleep in. What’s the fire safety issue?
Many other cities allow this to be legal, and even encourage people to convert spaces like this to housing, in order to alleviate the housing crunch. Many cities publish floorplans for home owners!
The city even recognizes that they are behind the times. For the ENY pilot program, where they are trying to legalize basement apartments, they changed the “percentage above ground” criteria to be based on window size, which is more important as an escape route in case of a fire!

stevecym | 5 years and 11 months ago

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JHCOVERT: I know a woman who was in a basement apt in sunnyside, asleep, no back exit, not even a window to fit through (hopper windows), and the dryer, which was in the basement entry, blocking her only exit, caught fire. all done illegally of course. the smoke alarm saved her. she just made it out and it was almost very tragic.

lkrshacmzcy | 5 years and 11 months ago

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I may have misunderstood. You can use it as a duplex for a finished basement but there can be no sleeping quarters nor can there be a bathroom.
I will agree on both the takes of the silly laws, but after reading through the notes from our owner’s meetings with the Sub Ops Committee for the city (who helps make all these laws) I do also understand there take: Brooklyn is the second largest city in the country (technically) and it is too large to have specific laws. The laws need to be general in order to protect the majority otherwise there would be millions of laws and amendments.

Guest User | 5 years and 11 months ago

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There is an argument to be made that were your space to catch fire your response could be very different if you were doing yoga versus if you were sleeping. I’m not disagreeing with the idea that the DOB is nonsensical in many of its rules, but I do believe that there is sound reasoning behind this particular instance.

chemosphere | 5 years and 11 months ago

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right, although here is why the law is so silly: if you use the basement as part of a duplex, you don’t need paperwork to sit down there on a sofa, watch tv, do yoga, lie on your back, close your eyes. You only need paperwork (and $1000s in permits and architects fees) to *SLEEP* there. Absolutely ridiculous. The city is penalizing people depending on their state of conciousness.

lkrshacmzcy | 5 years and 11 months ago

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Both. If you use the basement as part of a duplex, you need to have paperwork to show it is a legal living space. Otherwise it is an illegal conversion.

chemosphere | 5 years and 11 months ago

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Chris, is the DOB giving violations for people who have duplexed their basement to the 1st floor apt, or only to apts that solely occupy the basement floor?

lkrshacmzcy | 5 years and 11 months ago

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Word of advice in your search: I have had at least one client a week over the past two months call in with DOB violations after putting the basement “apartment” on the market; most are in South Brooklyn.
The city made a note about cracking down on illegal basements and it is the first time I am truly seeing the city actively pursing

bzsvsuhcjr | 5 years and 11 months ago

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@wonderednow you’re absolutely right. We got it looked at by an architect friend that shared what are options are for expanding and finishing the cellar would not be worth it. Thanks all for your help.

chemosphere | 5 years and 11 months ago

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Almost nobody does this, but you can put your living room and dining room in your cellar. “No living space” means no sleeping, no kitchen, and no full bathroom unless it is duplexed to the upstairs apt. I believe you have to get an affidavit for the full bathroom to pass.

uchenna

in General Discussion 5 years and 11 months ago

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Hi, bedrooms require light and air. If this is a proper cellar (no windows), then this work would not be legal. Basement or garden apartments are legal, as they have windows and typically a separate entrance. If this house has any unused FAR (floor area ratio) then you may be able to build an extension. I am a local Architect, feel free to contact me for renovation guidance. mph@polyarch.studio

bbrc

in General Discussion 5 years and 11 months ago

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I’ve actually seen the 2-family house you’re thinking of (blue door, right?), and the cellar is almost certainly a cellar, not a basement. Not habitable for living. That house is in a great location, but I agree, it’s very small. It would work if you used it as a one family, but then there’s no rental income.

stevecym | 5 years and 11 months ago

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to bkallday’s comment. i just read about this gas. I first heard about it in 1983 when some people knocked a house down in the town i grew up in claiming it was contaminated with the stuff. i just googled it and the EPA has a page dedicated to it and they have recommendations for dealing with it and it looks like it can be held back a bit though i did not read any further to see if that can be done post construction.

stevecym | 5 years and 11 months ago

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bkallday: radon gas.

BKALLDAY | 5 years and 11 months ago

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Be careful. unless you have ventilation and 2 forms of egress, you need to check with an architect. Brooklyn homes tend to emit a gas from all of the abundance of rock and soil and and the remediate that can be pricey. My opinion is a 7 foot height would be some tough living. Good luck.

Guest User | 5 years and 11 months ago

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I would recommend only putting children down there, and perhaps lowering the ceiling. They grow best in cramped, damp and dark spaces. Oh wait… that’s mushrooms… never mind.

bzsvsuhcjr | 5 years and 11 months ago

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@no-permitz Of course not. If it’s really a cellar, the property’s crossed off our list. But even if it is a legal basement, I’m very much on the fence that it’s enough space to do what we need to do to make it comfortable for our family.

yudashasom | 5 years and 11 months ago

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If you are truly talking about a cellar, it doesn’t sound like you thought this out. I hope you aren’t thinking of putting children/renters down there without proper light and air, egress.. etc.

bzsvsuhcjr | 5 years and 11 months ago

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Thanks bobjbkln, we’ll be sure to double check that.