Building code, roof hatch ladder orientation. The Royal Renovators saga....

Thanks, janedrew. Exactly what I was looking for.

slimc

in General Discussion 3 years and 10 months ago

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slimc | 3 years and 11 months ago

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I finally figured out why I feel like a trapeze artist/contortionist when trying to get from the ladder to the roof through the roof hatch. It seems Royal installed the hatch (the wrong hatch btw) with the hinge side of the hatch in front of the ladder, rather than opposite the ladder. Can anyone point me to building code that clarifies the orientation of the roof hatch and ladder?

Guest User | 3 years and 11 months ago

string(1) "3"
string(6) "195579"

i’m seeing info about rooftop clearances and hatches that open within a certain distance of the edge of a building requiring railings but nothing about the ladder orientation. is it possible that this is something that is obvious and therefore not actually codified? that is, something that FDNY would happily issue a violation for but that isn’t specifically laid out by code anywhere?

Guest User | 3 years and 11 months ago

string(1) "3"
string(6) "195579"

i’m seeing info about rooftop clearances and hatches that open within a certain distance of the edge of a building requiring railings but nothing about the ladder orientation. is it possible that this is something that is obvious and therefore not actually codified? that is, something that FDNY would happily issue a violation for but that isn’t specifically laid out by code anywhere?

Putnamdenizen | 3 years and 11 months ago

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My hatch is installed the same way.

Guest User | 3 years and 11 months ago

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mine as well

slimc | 3 years and 11 months ago

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I think this is the correct way to configure the hatch. See photo. Are yours installed with the hinges on the same side as the ladder? [Screen Shot 2021-06-14 at 1](//muut.com/u/brownstoner/s1/:brownstoner:SmYP:screenshot20210614at1.08.37pm.png.jpg)

Putnamdenizen | 3 years and 11 months ago

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Yes. hinges same side as ladder. On my roof doing it the other way might have caused damage to a skylight. I get that you are saying that you’d like to walk up and forward from the ladder. I don’t find the way I have it so hard to maneuver.

slimc | 3 years and 11 months ago

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I can’t find a single manufacturer’s or installer’s schematic that puts the hinges on the same side as the ladder. This might be something roofers overlook but that hatch manufacturers consider obvious. In any case, it is a totally harrowing experience to have to turn around at the top of the ladder and swing a leg over the side of the hatch. And I do yoga (occasionally).

Guest User | 3 years and 11 months ago

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Makes sense. Just have Bilco give you a statement.

slimc | 3 years and 11 months ago

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Janedrew, Royal did not install a Bilco brand hatch as specified in the contract – this is some unknown variety but you are correct that a statement from the hatch maker would resolve the issue.

Guest User | 3 years and 11 months ago

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Yes i remember the Royal post quite well and your travails with them. So sorry all this has happened.

I meant get a statement from Bilco on best practice for installation as well. In these situations it’s better to get all the evidence so you have it for (DCA, small claims etc).

hkapstein | 3 years and 11 months ago

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Can you move the ladder?

slimc | 3 years and 11 months ago

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The ladder is custom, its base is on the hallway floor. It goes straight up to the bannister then curves over the main staircase. A fall would be two flights straight down on the staircase.

dss315 | 3 years and 11 months ago

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Anyone have any good reco’s for folks to install/put in a roof hatch? I saw one that’s kind of like those old attic ones where you pull down a hatch and latter extends…

brokelin | 3 years and 11 months ago

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Yikes – that sounds harrowing, to be out on the hatch ladder over a stairway! Just clambering onto the roof from the usual straight vertical ladder attached to the wall, even with the hatch installed correctly, was always something that caused me to pay close attention so I wouldn’t fall.

patrickburnsjr | 3 years and 11 months ago

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Silmc, to address The Safety Factor in support of your use of an existing roof hatch cover and straight vertical ladder:

How about making an appointment with an iron worker to estimate fabricating a couple of incombustible grab-bars for the top of the egress opening along with a removable raised level platform on the roof to dismount to (and get back aboard on) from the side of your hatch egress ?

As for the ladder climb, an iron worker can estimate adjusting the straight ladder to pivot to an angle climb with a return to straight position, via a custom/fabricated steel hinge bar at the top of the egress opening IF there is enough head room.

patrickburnsjr | 3 years and 11 months ago

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    string(19) "2017-08-10 13:54:17"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(61) "Your First Name Your Last Name Your First Name Your Last Name"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(193383)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(1) {
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(1) {
    [0]=>
    string(10) "subscriber"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(3) {
    ["read"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_0"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

Actually, not sure if Silmc has a straight vertical ladder or it is a custom job w. a curve. A picture would define.

Guest User | 3 years and 11 months ago

string(1) "3"
string(6) "200749"

I believe Slimc said it was custom. Good suggestion on egress bars. I thought about it as well. First course of action would be to see if Royal can be on the hook to reinstall correctly or pay for the work. Then if that fails, look into other solutions.

slimc | 3 years and 10 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#5147 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#5148 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(6) "177080"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(5) "slimc"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(34) "$P$BRwHbpsTCIzijIQaF3RE5jEha/vxZh/"
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(5) "slimc"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(21) "slimchancey@yahoo.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(20) "/forums/users/slimc/"
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2013-06-24 17:25:15"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(45) "1725546075:$P$Bkb3cmBuZPrPksim3f2NiwCwWyp8eC0"
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(5) "slimc"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(177080)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(2) {
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(2) {
    [0]=>
    string(10) "subscriber"
    [1]=>
    string(15) "bbp_participant"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(4) {
    ["read"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_0"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

I received a definitive answer from Babcock-Davis, the hatch manufacturer, stating that the proper installation is with the hinge-side of hatch opposite the ladder.