Boiler Options / Alternatives?

Dona… errol832000@hotmail.com

Guest User | 3 years and 2 months ago

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winbrown | 3 years and 3 months ago

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So… seems I need a new boiler…. and with the city’s push to move away from gas, and the fact that my gas bill was over $900 last month, I’m wondering if now is the time to consider something other than another gas boiler. Has anyone installed a different HVAC system / heat pump / electric alternative they actually like? We are planning on doing a bunch of targeted renovations (kitchens & bathrooms & windows mostly) – we were NOT planning on doing a gut renovation. Are there other heating (and potentially cooling) alternatives I should be considering? (And also, are there government incentives I should be aware of for moving away from gas?) Thanks for sharing your experiences!

cate | 3 years and 3 months ago

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Are you in a Brooklyn row house? I keep hearing HVAC is not really sufficient on its own without central heating in these parts. (We are in a row house with an oil boiler with hot water radiators and no HVAC.)

Guest User | 3 years and 3 months ago

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realistically , unless you are going to hyper insulate your house, you will not be comfortable by having no gas based hot water heat. Nor will you achieve any savings on your bill since switching into electric heat at low temperatures using a heat pump is even more expansive than gas heat.

Guest User | 3 years and 3 months ago

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expensive not expansive

winbrown | 3 years and 3 months ago

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Yes, I’m in a row house, but one side is not attached – there’s a small alley between my house and the next. I’m afraid insulating perfectly is not an option. My concern is really that even when the boiler was working as it should the heat wasn’t great. The steam barely reached the radiators at the front and back of the house while the middle was hot when I did what the plumber said to do which was put the temp to 72, 24/7 (see above for $900+/mo gas bill). Would it be reasonable to get a boiler to heat the house to say, 60 degrees and then use mini-splits to heat only the rooms we use to a comfortable 68? Do you think that would be more efficient, economical, and warm? We are also investigating adding solar panels to the roof. So far we’ve spoken with Momentum and have a call with Brooklyn Solar Works tomorrow. Any other companies we should consider? Thanks, Brownstoners!

irfan | 3 years and 3 months ago

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If heat isn’t even that’s a much easier fix than putting in a new HVAC system. A properly balanced system should heat the house pretty evenly. Maybe you need to replace vents or worst case fix piping to get things right. There are plumbers on here much more knowledgeable that I am, but I have found that there are a lot of bad plumbers in Brooklyn unfortunately. I would hire one of the better steam folks and have them advise.

irfan | 3 years and 3 months ago

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If heat isn’t even that’s a much easier fix than putting in a new HVAC system. A properly balanced system should heat the house pretty evenly. Maybe you need to replace vents or worst case fix piping to get things right. There are plumbers on here much more knowledgeable that I am, but I have found that there are a lot of bad plumbers in Brooklyn unfortunately. I would hire one of the better steam folks and have them advise.

chemosphere | 3 years and 3 months ago

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Why do (colder) Scandinavian countries have much higher rates of residential heat pump use than us, with no problems heating their houses without boilers. Better insulation? Tilt and turn windows rather than double hung?

cate | 3 years and 3 months ago

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OP, getting even heat might be a relatively simple fix. For example, maybe some radiators are not pitched correctly and need a shim. Or maybe the valves need a little adjustment. This overview seems pretty informative: https://www.sparksuper.com/5-steps-to-healthy-steam-radiators/

winbrown | 3 years and 3 months ago

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I would LOVE some recos of local plumbers you all love (I’m in Bed Stuy). We recently had someone tune up the boiler (in December) and declare it in great shape. We then had someone else come in and increase the pressure in the boiler and then come back to change every valve (15 radiators) putting a specific size on each different radiator depending on how close it was to the boiler (length away front to back and basement to the third floor). It still wasn’t really balanced and once the valves went on the radiators almost NEVER were hot all the way across.

Aside from wanting to balance the house, the idea of responsibly heating only the rooms we’re using (like for example, I don’t use my office at night, the kids will be in college a lot of the time, etc) is really attractive and I’d like to figure out an economical and environmentally conscious way to do that too.

Thanks!

irfan | 3 years and 3 months ago

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I’m getting ahead of my skis but your first problem is probably that they turned the pressure up. Too high pressure actually can make it harder for steam to get through the whole system. All you need is enough pressure differential to push the steam through the system. It doesn’t take much to do that. If your mains and rads are properly vented you shouldn’t need more than 2psi or so (better less) to get steam out to the whole system. High pressure steam actually moves slower than low pressure steam in a fixed system for a lot of sciencey reasons that aren’t worth getting into here (look it up if curious).

There are a lot of plumbers here that are good with steam and will hopefully opine soon (and correct me if I’m wrong here).

irfan | 3 years and 3 months ago

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I’m getting ahead of my skis but your first problem is probably that they turned the pressure up. Too high pressure actually can make it harder for steam to get through the whole system. All you need is enough pressure differential to push the steam through the system. It doesn’t take much to do that. If your mains and rads are properly vented you shouldn’t need more than 2psi or so (better less) to get steam out to the whole system. High pressure steam actually moves slower than low pressure steam in a fixed system for a lot of sciencey reasons that aren’t worth getting into here (look it up if curious).

There are a lot of plumbers here that are good with steam and will hopefully opine soon (and correct me if I’m wrong here).

Guest User | 3 years and 3 months ago

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you should never have turned up the steam pressure Hopefully your plumber added some vents on the basement steam mains

lkrshacmzcy | 3 years and 3 months ago

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Vents should be sized to the radiator, not to the location!
…This is a question we open up every December or so and let the Team argue with each other

lkrshacmzcy | 3 years and 3 months ago

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Vents should be sized to the radiator, not to the location!
…This is a question we open up every December or so and let the Team argue with each other

winbrown | 3 years and 3 months ago

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Well, I’d love a real consultation from a heating/steam expert who could take a look at the place and advise on the best way to move forward since with needing a new boiler I now have the opportunity to rethink and set up a good system – especially since we are at the end of the heating system and not in the emergency of the beginning. Brownstoners, who do you love?

BklnRefugee | 3 years and 3 months ago

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Not something I did in NYC (did it at vacation place in Montana) — air-to-water heat pump that plugged right into our radiant system. We kept the boiler (it turns on on the very coldest days, not because the heat pump can’t handle them, but because we need the extra BTUs). Artic Heat Pumps work down to like -20F. Electricity is cheap out where we are and propane is expensive, so it was a huge savings. Not sure how it would work on ConEd’s rate structure.

slimc | 3 years and 3 months ago

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I used Eman to repipe my boiler, replace a rusted and leaking return, re-install a couple of radiators and do some safety work on my boiler – the house is much more consistently heated now, even in the rooms furthest from the boiler. I definitely recommend him.

Guest User | 3 years and 3 months ago

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Bklynrefugee…Im a heating tech and one of my accounts has a hybrid system in a six family with an air to water/glycol chiller as a component. . the controls switch over to using a series of HE gas boilers when the temp hits 45 degrees The cost of using the chillers for heat becomes prohibitive and inefficient at that point due to the cost of electricity in brooklyn… I can’t quite get a grip on how NYC expects to eliminate gas in buildings with steam heat, since the conversion to hvac systems adds a huge expense to homeowners. BTW, as to the OP I am glad that you are looking upon boiler replacement as an opportunity to upgrade your steam system .Half the time the near piping is chaotic, leading to crappy heating distribution