Benjamin Moore Exterior Regal Select Paint
thank you for letting me comment to that. i did not want to allude to the national origin of the people taking the jobs here as i am a firm believer that we should treat all workers in this country the same and i wanted to know more about how painters are treated in the UK because i have already shown that they make a salary close to teachers and i am sure the british government gives them additional protections as well that we probably have on the books here but do not enforce.
To jeff bezos or bill gates or other top income earners, money like this being sent outside of the country to help others can be a good thing or something they just don’t care about because $25 hour is nothing to them, even spread over the 2500 or so of them painting in NYC, 25 an hour may be nothing. but for some american worker who wants to make say $20 an hour plus progressive protections our government mandates and maybe some benefits, perhaps health care, that 25 dollars an hour is everything. i suspect that has been part of the division in this country; well heeled professionals c annot fathom what $25 an hour might mean to someone making (or hoping to make) even 20 an hour.
but now that you have brought national origin into this (i did everything to avoid this here; I did everything to avoid race here because it is wrong to enter it on a board like this) i will explain what is really bad about this for the american worker and why it is contributing to a racist system (racist against americans) and creates discrimination, especially with the working class: if a self employed american painter drops a ladder on someone’s car he can and will be sued in the in the courts (i doubt they would sue the other guy and if they did, he would leave) and if they got a judgement against the non american they would probably not try to enforce it but they would put a lien on the american or his/her assets. if an american gets caught not paying into social security – whether they are self employed or working as an ” independent contractor” they can be prosecuted and if an american gets hurt and goes to the hospital without insurance and has any assets, they will file a lien but they will let the other guy walk. so just to work in his own country, the american has about 20 and hour in expenses above and beyond the 25 he wants to make.
Painters (american born or not) cannot afford to live in brownstones. I don’t think someone on a non union painter’s salary really cares what that money is being used for. the american just wants a job; just like the Guatamalan you mention, he wants to feed his family. he is does not have the “luxury” to worry about people living someplace else; he has his own worries and own family to worry about and to threaten the american who makes the same amount of money (or wants to make the same amount of money) with legal action and ignore it when it is someone else is outright and systemic racism.
watch urban dad, i will get no likes for this nor will anyone comment to it. i will tell you why, the Neo Liberal Capitalists among us hate this language. Worker Protections and equal rights for workers, that is the language of true progressives.
andriywww1990
in General Discussion 4 years and 3 months ago
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aqueenlee | 4 years and 4 months ago
Hi, I originally posted about my fallen cornice back in Sept 2020. Well the job got started and coming along nicely. Painting will start shortly. Has anyone had any experience with BM flat Exterior paint (Regal Select line)? Does it wear well? Does it require a tinted primer? I am also looking at their Aura line. Cost more but it is under consideration. A wooden cornice (street facing), window frames and a tin mansard roof will be painted. I am in a LPC district.
Does anyone know if Landmarks has a list of preferred paint brands that work best for a project like mine? I have been told that they can assist me with selecting paint options. I have to use a dark green, for a 100 year old house. Any information that can be shared would be appreciated. Thank you in advance.
greenworks | 4 years and 4 months ago
Several years ago, our contractor used BM super spec DTM Alkyd paint/primer low lustre p-23 on our (metal) cornice as well as on some masonry and wood when we repainted the front of our house. Semi gloss is p-24.
It looked so good and has worn so well, we’ve since used it to DIY many other projects around the house (iron driveway gate, wood 4x4s for our Toja grid system, wood slats – I could go on and on) and it’s SUPER easy to work with, lays down well, and lasts.
BM literature on the dtm was apparently recently changed to say it’s for metal only but we spoke to them and it’s still good for everything.
Exterior-wise I’ve never loved a paint so much, (ok maybe I love FPE gloss paint more but that’s mainly for entry doors) outside of the fact that it’s alkyd and cleanup is a pain but if you are dealing with exterior paint, that seems to be the way to go. We try to make up for the environmental issues by being more sensitive in other areas to compensate.
We’re not LM but I think the color is the important part, not necessarily brand.
stevecym | 4 years and 4 months ago
They say the super spec is for metal due to epa regs. No more oil base paint, at least in gallon sizes, for wood. Same product. If you ask the store, they will say something like “we are not allowed to tell you this can be used on wood”.
I think the primer is more important than the paint but i work on raw wood.
The super spec is our go to. We only use water base when we have to. In so far as flat water base, or flat any paint, most people dont go flat and many believe flat is less durable than the glossier finishes.
greenworks | 4 years and 4 months ago
@steve that’s exactly what BM told us, nearly verbatim, when we saw the label switch
stevecym | 4 years and 4 months ago
Boo, i think 2 or 3 stores said that to me, just like that. Someone figured that language is a good work around.
agdipierro
in General Discussion 4 years and 4 months ago
DTM means “direct to metal” so it’s not designed for wood. Second to oil, true alkyd paints are extremely durable.
yudashasom | 4 years and 4 months ago
I’d go with an oil based semi like Rustoleum. It comes in quarts, but covers wells You should be able to do a cornice with 3-4 quarts. Flat will last half as long and in a year it will look like it needs to be painted again
greenworks | 4 years and 4 months ago
Ed I’ve used it on everything from masonry to wood, with great results – over years now in some pretty punishing environments – and it still looks like the day I brushed it – so sometimes a name is just a name.
I didn’t realize it had such a following as an all around paint (not just metal) til I started talking to the paint store guys, other painters and contractors, and also BM reps.
People indeed use it with great results on most everything, not just metal.
And if Steve has been using it for wood too, then I’d take that to the bank. He’s forgotten more about wood than both of us know. I hope I phrased that right Steve it was meant as a compliment.
andriywww1990 | 4 years and 4 months ago
ed, these are pretty much the same old oil base paints that we were using on wood twenty years ago before the epa changes. here is the catch: while DTM says direct to metal, i would not put it or anything direct to metal or wood. always prime. so really, when you do that, your paint is not sticking to the wood (or metal) it is sticking to the primer. i have been using the dtm for years on wood and have not had any issues. surface prep is key.
someone mentioned rustoleum. we used to use rustoleum on wood. it is fine. but ben moore gives us more color options. for a while in the ’90’s rustoleam took a foray into the oil based wood paint market. i imagine that had to stop with the epa changes.
boo, thank you. i use that phrase when talking about people who are well entrenched in something and have experience on me. when i cannot help someone with a lock and send them to greenwich locksmith in the city i say “phil has forgotten more than i know” and it is true.
To learn about this stuff, call the tech teams at the paint and varnish manufacturers and put questions to them. i call every one of them about once a year and had to call ben moore about 3 weeks ago even though i have been using their products since i was a teenager.
agdipierro
in General Discussion 4 years and 4 months ago
Of course paint is really a paint system with a primer and a top coat and one should always follow the manufacturer’s instructions.
The BM website states “Super Spec® HP DTMs : Designed to perform as direct to metal and primer finish. Both coats of the product provide rust inhibition for superior rust control.
Consider BM Ultra Spec – EXT for exterior painting not involving masonry or metal.
Or stick with Regal.
BM and Sherwin Williams have excellent customer and technical services. Call either.
andriywww1990 | 4 years and 4 months ago
the super spec sands out much nicer between coats than water base does. that is really why i use it. i would say that as far as durability, over the last 20 years, water base paints have come so far along that they rival oil. they look different and smell different than they once did.
cate | 4 years and 4 months ago
I would not use any paint that includes both primer and paint in one coat for exterior work. Someone used this (Benjamin Moore brand) on an exterior door for us and also a door for a friend, and it flaked off within a year for both of us. (Of course, a wood door will move even more than a cornice.)
NeoGrec | 4 years and 4 months ago
Last year we did both exterior and interior painting. Both contractors (different guys) insisted the formulation of BM’s oil-based paints has changed recently making them less durable. This after I asked (well, almost begged) them to use oil-based for both interior woodwork and exterior. I am already disappointed with how the paint on my window sills is holding up. Yet these guys paint for a living so now I’m confused. Is their information more up to date than this thread or did I lose an opportunity to use a more long-lasting product?
andriywww1990 | 4 years and 4 months ago
Neo grec, I run into people all the time who paint for a living and i can tell you this, i knew more when i was 13 than then most of them do now and sadly, i am not joking. The reason i knew what i did was because my mother read the directions on the can and followed them and she did the interior painting in our house. Pick up a can of paint sometime and quiz them on the directions. What grit should we sand between coats with? Ask if they know what a tack cloth is for.
All paints have been changing. They all smell different than they did 10 yrs ago. But i have been using the dtm for years and i can tell you this, with what i charge to do a pair of doors, i would have complaints all over the internet if i had paint failing. I would be out of business. I never ever have paint peel or wear except when hit with bikes and strollers.
Those “painters” you hired are not painters. The current stock of painters rushes through things to get paid fast and move on. If you did not see sand paper on that job or them sanding anything, there in lies your problem.
Failur e to follow the directions and laziness is the problem. There is no such thing as trying to do the next job better than the last one with them. It is about speed and getting paid and to improve quality you have to slow done.
dorkofwindsor | 4 years and 4 months ago
Super Spec on my metal cornice has been great. No complaints, but I will note that my cornice location is fairly protected from the weather and rarely (or never) takes direct thrashing like a tin mansard roof.
andriywww1990 | 4 years and 4 months ago
after commenting here yesterday, i did wonder if perhaps neo grec used satin impervo inside and i am considering that ben moore has been messing with that product due to voc’s in the house. i have not used it in years, so i do not know. when i work inside now, i tend to go water base. i still would not fall for the stories Neo Grec’s painters conveyed to him or her.
i know i said this before, but let me restate this: the issue with paints is the “painters” not the product. People go into painting because they think it is easy. it is not easy. the prep work and knowing what to do in a unique situation or in less than ideal conditions is paramount; the painters today are not in it to learn these things. its about getting paid and getting paid fast.
andriywww1990 | 4 years and 4 months ago
neo grec: i hit on this in another post. another reason why paint will fail is a lot of people today do not let it dry long enough before recoating. and i have watched people who “make a living painting” do just this; they put a coat of paint on and with oil they try to recoat at the end of the day or with latex they will recoat as soon as it is “dry to the touch” (like two hours). what happens when someone does this is, the paint underneath is not dry and the later coats will not adhere properly. they do this to speed the job along.
so i can make a list of things here that “people who paint” for a living do wrong and what i have seen and the arguments i get from such people:
1. they do not want to use primer.
2. they do not stir the paint (i had a guy go to pour paint that had been sitting in my shop for years from a gallon can into a quart can for us to take on a job on Borum St. had i not caught him and we used that that paint it would have ruined that job; did he give a toss? no. not in the least).
3. they do not sand before or between coats;
4. they will overcoat before the first coat is fully dry;
5. they roll trim as opposed to brush
6. they will not tack the work off
if i think of more, i will try to list them later so people know what is going wrong.
these infractions have become so common place among the “talent” out there that when someone like me hires one to paint, all i get is argument (i am being “difficult”). i have been told “we do it this way now”, often over things that are quite contrary to what is written on the directions on the back of the can. and i have told people “if you follow the directions on the can and something goes wrong, you are covered, i will not fault you”. they still do not care. i do everything myself now because of it. sometimes when you watch them, they will do it the way they should but as soon as you turn your back or walk away they are back at their old tricks (i have walked away and watched from around a corner or inside a building). it is just not worth the trouble.
this is the issue. to do all of this correctly, a real painter would have to charge over twice as much as the bottom feeders get. because of this, homeowners take the chance on the bottom feeder and sometimes they get lucky – if they get lucky. keep in mind, a paint job will look good the day you are paying the contractor but six months later?
unfortunately, i have not seen a real painter around the outer boroughs in years. i know one who works in manhattan and he tells me every time he sends a fair quote for quality work outside of his regular work area, he does not even “get a thank you” back from the person he sent the quote to. pros have been driven from the market.
just because somebody does something for a living does not mean they are doing it correctly. and unfortunately most homeowners who have not done this for a living do not know enough about this to weed the bad ones out from the good ones. if just read this, you know a little more.
hkapstein | 4 years and 4 months ago
Regarding 5, I’ve found it’s much faster and better to roll on trim and then brush out than it is to brush on. The roller gets more paint on, the brush only lays it real thin, which sometimes is desireable, but not on most trim I’ve done. But there may be a disadvantage I’m not seeing.
andriywww1990 | 4 years and 4 months ago
you are correct urbandad, a lot of people roll and brush. the only disadvantage is that the profiles cannot be rolled without pressing excess paint out of the roller.