Baby bedroom directly over boiler room?
Imiller, thank you for what sounds like a spot on explanation; definitely something i won’t argue against.
for those who are wondering why i suggested any oxygen meter, i looked at the cost of genuine, professional level Co and Co2 meters and they were pricey; i was looking for something rolled into one. and they do seem to have air quality monitors out there that check at least some of these things. these are small things that can be set on the mantle or on the shelf in a babies room.
steve
stevecym
in General Discussion 5 years and 6 months ago
61
Please log in, in order to post replies!
61 replies
stickerhappy | 5 years and 6 months ago
Our baby’s bedroom is directly over the boiler room- the gas boiler and hot water heaters are basically located 5’ down right under his crib in the basement.
We obviously have a CO2 and smoke monitor in his room and one outside the boiler room but is this dangerous?
I assume there are always some small amounts of co2 that don’t go up the flue and just wondering if anything more should be done from a safety standpoint.
Thanks for any suggestions.
hkapstein | 5 years and 6 months ago
I’m sure other people would be comfortable with this situation, but personally I would not do it. There’s no code against it(that I’m aware of) but in my opinion the air quality is usually not as good near the boiler, and while not necessarily deadly, I wouldn’t want to put a baby there. Having a proper ceiling and proper ventilation in the boiler room should help, but it’s not going to be air tight unless you use a sealed combustion boiler, and that’s not an option if you have a steam heat system. I’m sure many folks will disagree, and I don’t mean to be alarmist, but that’s my personal view, and I installed a sealed system in large part to avoid having combustion products in my house.
daveinbedstuy | 5 years and 6 months ago
It really depends upon the age and efficiency of the boiler. And of course whether or not it is properly vented. All of that can be determiend with a CO (not CO2) meter. A real meter, by an HVAC professional.
stevecym | 5 years and 6 months ago
we had a flue fire here a few years back and if my wife had not heard the roar of it and i had not gotten an extinguisher in there, it would have been something altogether worse and could have been a disaster – and right there beneath wood floor joists. now, you have gas, so a dirty flue should not be such an issue (unless you are doing something in your basement that creates a lot of dust which will get drawn through the boiler whether it is running or not) but there are the concerns others mention. here is what i would do in addition to the usual gas detectors in the nursery and near the boiler and one in the master bedroom even if it is far away: perhaps (i say perhaps as this should be confirmed with further research) a double layer of 5/8″ sheet rock over the boiler and why not put sheet metal over the rock? and build a wall enclosure around the boiler. again, 5/8″ rock. metal door, the works. that is the way it would be in a commercial building. that is the way they were in the houses where i grew up as well. it is only since i moved to the city that i saw these things sitting in the middle of the basement with nothing around them and bare wood joists over them. check required clearances and venting (not just outlet which i assume is to code but incoming air for the boiler to breath). if you wall it in, tape the rock joints. find out how to seal the pipe cuts, particularly the hot ones. no permit required to do this, i checked as i wish mine were its own room.
having dealt with all sorts of chemicals and odors in buildings, i do not think they necessarily rise straight up. they move along ceilings and floors to find a path of least resistance to a route up and out which may be across the entire building (entirely skipping some rooms and areas). so we will never get a way from these things completely and are all subject to them no matter where we are in the house. they could skip the nursery but get you in your own bed.
see what dibs says and have the boiler maintained annually. been there, done that, made that mistake.
I only suggest all of the above to give you an idea. talk with someone who really knows and read more about it. keep in mind that even though you ask the question and are right to, people have been living over central heating systems since they were invented.
angelique.m.west | 5 years and 6 months ago
Switch bedrooms? Move the baby to yours?
stickerhappy | 5 years and 6 months ago
Thanks for the advice.
OP here with addtl info about those replies:
This is a multi family so the boiler is in its own room in the basement with what looks like a thin metal ceiling.
Is the danger just CO or is there other gases or things to worry about as well here?
Master Plvmber | 5 years and 6 months ago
I’ve got a certification in Carbon Monoxide Detection and Eradication…for whatever that’s worth. Infants and the elderly are more susceptible to carbon monoxide (CO) poisoning than typical adults. UL Listed CO detectors generally suck and require a high level of CO gas to be present for a long time before they actually sound an alarm. There’s a company called CO Experts that independently manufacture and sell “low-level” carbon monoxide alarms. Those are the ones to buy…for monitoring. Unfortunately, they don’t manufacture interlock units like Kidde does. The interlock CO alarms actually turn off the boiler in the presence of high ambient CO levels.
I see what you’re describing in people’s Brooklyn and Manhattan homes from time to time and I wonder why anyone would allow it. Not judging. Just saying. You obviously know you’ve got good reason to be concerned. If you’ve got to live with it, then throw the kitchen sink at it to make it safe.
www.72Fmechanical.com
stickerhappy | 5 years and 6 months ago
Master Plvmber, is low level of CO just an unavoidable part of a 30-year old gas boiler system or is something actually wrong if there is any CO present?
And if it is avoidable, as a CO eradication specialist, what would you suggest?
Thanks for your advice.
nk | 5 years and 6 months ago
Change the room of your baby.
Master Plvmber | 5 years and 6 months ago
As someone mentioned above, persistent low levels of CO are a part of nearly any natural draft (eg. steam boilers) boiler system. United Laboratories (UL) allows for that and so that’s why CO detectors carrying their listing or label, while are typically good quality and accurate, are not the best for sounding at low levels. Make sure there is some passive ventilation in the boiler room or have it checked out by someone who knows what they’re looking at. If you know a good chimney company, that’s probably a good start. They’re not all great but a talented contractor will recognize inadequate chimney draft/venting with a visual inspection. The signs are discoloration, pitting, water marks, a pile of grit at the base of the flue at the boiler or water heater, etc.
nednedx
in General Discussion 5 years and 6 months ago
I would also recommend a high end HEPA Air Purifier..some of them have sensors to detect air quality
stevecym | 5 years and 6 months ago
@murrayhill, i am by no means an expert on the co2 side of this but we do use hepa filters and my guess is they would do little to control a gas (they are after fine particles, dusts and things like lead).
but now that murrayhill said it, their are air quality systems that include charcoal filters and many chemical (not particle) masks use charcoal. if this is that much of a concern, perhaps one of these would be nice. the charcoal filters are pricey though but perhaps in that environment they would last a long time. definitely would not hurt.
last night i took a look at gas detectors on amazon. we had one of the UL listed units here and what i liked about it was it had a read out that told us how much was present. go on there and look and you will see some pricey units that measure the amount of gas. perhaps some of these are accurate? (i am probably going to buy one and i will report back here on what i think of it).
what i was really looking at were hand held units. keep in mind what MP is saying, have the unit cleaned and inspected. but that is only as good as the technician. so perhaps a handheld tester to pass around the boiler? these were by no means expensive.
stevecym | 5 years and 6 months ago
so i just dug our old gas detector out of the drawer. it was both a natural gas and CO2 detector. it does work; it used to hang over the stove and on days we have the oven on and all burners on the stove on (a lot of c02), it would go off. so we did what most people do and tossed it in the drawer and pretend all is good.
this cheap unit is made by universal.
stickerhappy | 5 years and 6 months ago
I would gladly switch bedrooms for safety but the baby’s room barely fits a twin bed so I’m looking for any other ways to make it safe.
hkapstein | 5 years and 6 months ago
Everyone seems focused on CO, and while that’s definitely very important, is boiler exhaust otherwise good for you to breath? In my opinion, no.
Let’s also clarify. CO2 is a gas that’s a part of the atmosphere. A CO2 detector would be going off 100% of the time because there’s a lot of CO2 in the air. A boiler does produce a lot of CO2 and an elevated level of CO2 is not healthy. A boiler also produces CO if not enough oxygen reacts with the carbon during combustion. Under the best circumstances, this will happen a little bit, but if something is wrong, a lot of CO can be produced. CO is poisonous and can kill you, which is why the detectors exist, but also a low level exposure that might not trigger the alarm is harmful if not deadly. Other things come out too such as nitrous oxide, and I imagine the oxygen level is depressed in the air. Underburnt fuel is probably another thing that could come out. So I don’t think it’s safe to say that if your CO detector isn’t beeping, your air is fine. The health impact is hard to measure, and I’m not sure it would be practical to test the air composition reguarly.
But I’m sure not everyone agrees, and only you can decide how to handle it.
stevecym | 5 years and 6 months ago
and to add to what urbanded says, these gas meters i am referencing, i do not think they detect everything. i suspect they are sort of specific. so they may or may not measure unburnt fuel. more reading for tonight.
one other thing that may help. i suspect that when other things enter the air, they actually displace oxygen. so perhaps something that measures oxygen? if it is low that may indicate unburnt fuel, co2 and whatever else?
for those who think this is an overkill or i am beating this to death: it is not if you have an unvented natural gas heater in your house or an unvented dryer.
hkapstein | 5 years and 6 months ago
Actually let me put this into context. An unvented gas stove is common. That will burn gas in your living space and vent the products into your kitchen. However you’re probably burning 10% as much fuel as a boiler most of the time, and not for more than a few hours, but it’s unvented. If you’ve ever used an unvented gas fireplace, you can definitely detect a difference in the air quality, and I think if you stand in a boiler room you’ll sense this as well. In theory, if properly vented most of that stuff goes up the chimney, but from a practical perspect some will go into the house. So I think whether it’s safe depends on your idea of what is safe and what is healthy.
stevecym | 5 years and 6 months ago
urbanded, i have a gas heater here and this conversation has me thinking and i am reading every word you are saying and going behind you and googling things.
so op, i just checked. it is practice in labs and other facilities that store gases to, instead of trying to track all those gases, place a low oxygen alarm and sensor and if they sound, that indicates high other gases are displacing oxygen, no matter what they are. just checked all sorts of stuff on the next, amazon. all over price wise.
sorry for the overkill here. but for those of us that have a concern, this one simple alarm and measuring device may be the answer.
perhaps not so severe for adults, but as parents we all have to think of the little ones.
hkapstein | 5 years and 6 months ago
Probably its overkill, but it’s not something I’d want to underkill.