Baby bedroom directly over boiler room?

Imiller, thank you for what sounds like a spot on explanation; definitely something i won’t argue against.

for those who are wondering why i suggested any oxygen meter, i looked at the cost of genuine, professional level Co and Co2 meters and they were pricey; i was looking for something rolled into one. and they do seem to have air quality monitors out there that check at least some of these things. these are small things that can be set on the mantle or on the shelf in a babies room.

steve

stevecym

in General Discussion 5 years and 6 months ago

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hkapstein | 5 years and 6 months ago

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True only of a direct vent boiler, or conceivably a power vented boiler, which does not appear to be what this is. Based on the photos, this building looks like an old law tenement, so most likely the op only has one apt and would have to get buy in from the board to work on the boiler. Tought situation to be in.

nope | 5 years and 6 months ago

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On this topic, I suggest you browse throught the results of a Goggle search for “government studies on carbon monoxide in the home” for reputable information—including the various sources of CO gas in the home, as well as the possible effects of persistant lower grade exposure from sources such gas stoves, cigarettte smoke, burning incense, and of course boilers and outside car exhaust fumes. We try to close off our homes from outdoor bad air sources, ony to seal in the indoor ones. Persistant low grade CO sources are likely a more widespread problem than we realize, with not only very young and elderly most at risk, but especially the developing fetus in the womb.
I also urge you to check out the excellent WebMD online article entitled “Giving your baby the best start” for valuable tips on other potential hazards for babies in the home environment (many of whch apply not to the very young). Consumer Reports haa also done valuable research along similar lines with their web articles on PFAS in the home.

nope | 5 years and 6 months ago

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On this topic, I suggest you browse throught the results of a Goggle search for “government studies on carbon monoxide in the home” for reputable information—including the various sources of CO gas in the home, as well as the possible effects of persistant lower grade exposure from sources such gas stoves, cigarettte smoke, burning incense, and of course boilers and outside car exhaust fumes. We try to close off our homes from outdoor bad air sources, ony to seal in the indoor ones. Persistant low grade CO sources are likely a more widespread problem than we realize, with not only very young and elderly most at risk, but especially the developing fetus in the womb.
I also urge you to check out the excellent WebMD online article entitled “Giving your baby the best start” for valuable tips on other potential hazards for babies in the home environment (many of whch apply not to the very young). Consumer Reports haa also done valuable research along similar lines with their web articles on PFAS in the home.

stevecym | 5 years and 6 months ago

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at Master Plumber: what is that blower doing on my oil burner? the only reason it may not pressurize is because it might be properly vented. but there is a blower there and forcing air into anything with a seam in it is suspect. found on the web, first google response:

“An induced-draft burner uses a blower to pull air into the burner, and through the combustion chamber and heat exchanger. The fan then pushes the flue gases out through the vent. This creates negative pressure in the furnace, and may create positive or negative pressure in the venting systems.

Sidewall-vented, induced-draft furnaces have significant positive pressure pushing exhaust gases outside. ”

i did not make this up.

stevecym | 5 years and 6 months ago

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@master plumber, obviously there is different equipment out there and i think you realize my error; i should have said “some”. My oil burner forces air in and a building i worked in had massive natural gas burners with similar blowers. but you are right, my father’s very modern NG furnace is naturally aspirated and relies on the natural movement of air through the unit.

thank you for pointing this out and giving me the opportunity to clarify myself.

Master Plvmber | 5 years and 6 months ago

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> @stevecym
> “An induced-draft burner uses a blower to pull air into the burner, and through the combustion chamber and heat exchanger. The fan then pushes the flue gases out through the vent. This creates negative pressure in the furnace, and may create positive or negative pressure in the venting systems.
Sidewall-vented, induced-draft furnaces have significant positive pressure pushing exhaust gases outside. ”

This and the burner on your oil-fired boiler are two very different things Your quote refers very specifically to the negative-pressure-regulated gas valve system found on high efficiency boilers and furnaces which require a draft inducer (fan) to pull open the gas valve and move the combustion gasses through to the vent terminal.
Meanwhile, an oil burner just atomizes the fuel and mixes it with air. There is no significant increase in flue pressure compared to a natural draft boiler.

lkrshacmzcy | 5 years and 6 months ago

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^ A great plumbing mind!

lkrshacmzcy | 5 years and 6 months ago

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^ A great plumbing mind!

stevecym | 5 years and 6 months ago

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master plumber. thank you for clarifying that. i assume that assumes the installation is done properly which unfortunately most of us reading this have to assume about our own houses.

for the op and others who are talking about how important it is to keep the equipment clean. this comes from experience here and mind you is on a boiler with an oil burner on it (i would not know what happens or what you will see with gas or something without a burner):

when the heat exchanger gets dirty these things happen:

1. it begins to make a different sound. it is as if it is working harder to push air through the unit. kind of in the way a window air conditioner might sound different with a dirty filter.;

2. over time, a little bit of black has formed around the flame inspection hole.

3. when i open the flame inspection hole, the flame turns back a little toward the hole (which does not happen when it is clean).

Of course all this means that stuff is not going out the flue as it should and the boiler should be cleaned. i would imagine that if you had a natural ly aspirated furnace and the heat exchanger got clogged in it, some burnt gas would vent in the house and i would bet since it is not oil it might not leave that sooty color on the equipment. my guess is it might be easier for a lay person to spot dirty oil burning equipment than dirty gas burning equipment (i took care of a pair of massive gas boilers and never had the issues i have with my own oil fired stuff).

my boiler is in need of cleaning now. when i get this oxygen meter i have ordered, i will take a reading with it running dirty and will clean it and take another reading and will come back on here and share the results (and i am going to take that reading on different floors of the house). not sure how similar they would be with gas equipment.

SoSlope | 5 years and 6 months ago

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To clarify (as others have tried to do):
CO2 is carbon dioxide. CO is carbon monoxide. They are VERY different.

CO2 is what every person and animal breathes out. The baby in question is producing C02. No one puts a CO2 detector in their house. CO2 is not poisonous (of course, if you tried to breathe only CO2, you would suffocate from lack of oxygen).

C0 is carbon monoxide. It is poisonous. That is what you should worry about.

stevecym | 5 years and 6 months ago

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i was mixed up about this until the other day as well and looked it up and may still not be referencing these gasses properly: so carbon monoxide is the bad one. it is more or less produced during incomplete combustion. but can leaky heating equipment produce enough carbon dioxide to reduce the O2 to an unhealthy level? so the question becomes, and this is for master plumber, can someone just skip monitoring various gasses which may or may not be poisonous but still be unhealthy, and monitor reduced oxygen? i am wondering it that would be altogether safer and easier and perhaps they have low oxygen alarms.

Master Plvmber | 5 years and 6 months ago

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I think what you’re saying is you’d like to take the most circuitous route possible to monitoring for the presence of carbon monoxide, and that being to monitor for a decline of oxygen in the boiler room rather than for CO gas itself. No. That’s not a thing.

stickerhappy | 5 years and 6 months ago

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So who would be best to check out this whole situation and maybe even test to see if there even is an abnormal carbon monoxide level being released in this setup – a plumber, HVAC guy, chimney guy?

Guest User | 5 years and 6 months ago

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i would lean towards an HVAC person, but specifically someone whose work focuses on boilers. ask them to do an assessment of the existing setup and ask for a recommendation of additional safety devices that could be added to your system.

Lurker | 5 years and 6 months ago

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Hey mods, steveycym is doing it again. Stevecym, if you post a comment that is later shown to be wrong and, in this case, so wrong that it may spread deadly disinformation to someone who doesn’t read through the 40-plus comments on yoru post–please go back and delete your wrong posts and dont’ try to argue it out anymore. Let the plumbers handle the plumbling questions and stop putting your 2000 cents in on every goddamn topic that comes down the line.

stevecym | 5 years and 6 months ago

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i am not sure just any HVAC person. I tend to think they lean more toward the cooling end of things and other sorts of units other than these boilers. and i can tell you this, i do not think the people who work on oil burners work on gas equipment as oil burner people appear to be a dime a dozen but i hear some people complain they cannot find a gas technician (possibly because the equipment does not have to be cleaned as much).

stevecym | 5 years and 6 months ago

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lurker, first off, i often do mention that people should not be following what i am saying as if it is science as i am not trained. i am asking questions. the plumber asked what i was referring to – and yes there are blowers on much of this equipment and i had misspoken in what i said. but there are still people reading this who have blowers and yes, when the heat exchangers clog, the gases escape in places they do not belong – like the house. and i would also bet that even without blowers, if the system clogs, the gasses go someplace they do not belong. i was not wrong in what i was suggesting.

with the exception of having the two gasses mixed up along with a few others and possibly the OP, i came on here knowing a lot more about this equipment than you and quite a few others on here did and i now know a lot more about detecting these gasses and the equipment used to do so because i have been reading behind all of this. (by the way, there are recommend limits on the non-poisonous CO2 and their are meters to detect it; if someone wants a healthy house, a Co2 meter might be something to consider; they are pricey)

My incorrect classification of all boilers as having blowers or forced air burners only educated more people . no one would here would take this and begin taking a boiler apart or designing a system. my statements about test equipment and meters are overly in the side of caution and if the OP or anyone else were to buy, say an oxygen meter to check displacement in their house when running gas or oil equipment and used in on top of say a CO meter/alarm (which MP already stated are sort of unreliable) they would only be moving in the direction of extreme caution. (i have a ng space heater here and i have ordered an oxygen meter; there is nothing wrong with this suggestion; no one will die from over caution and i did state that i checked on line and labs measure the presence of other gases by looking for oxygen displacement. would you have thought of that? didn’t think so). no will die; they might waste money on a pricey meter.

Lurker, i have dealt with people discussing the operation of equipment and repair of things possibly since before you and many others reading this on here were born. Men, real men, used to bounce stuff like this around all the time and if someone corrected someone, so be it; we all learned from it. Men did not pull one another down. I get it, its part of the world we live in and we often say that is what we loath about this world without understanding we are part of it-

take what you want and leave the rest.

hkapstein | 5 years and 6 months ago

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Is there a way to delete a post?

stevecym | 5 years and 6 months ago

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and lurkar, i am with you on something. if i said something that is shown to be wrong and so wrong it can harm someone, please show me what it is and if i can remove, it i will.