Advice on foundation repair behind water heater

Well this weekend I found a great project to take up all my time this spring. Wet sand around my hot water heater, and lo and behold, behind it there’s a hole in the party wall foundation I can easily put my fist 6″ deep into. Anyone here got advice on who to contact first about sorting this out because it’s above my pay grade. I’m assuming there are folks who regularly sort this stuff out but it’s clearly the result of water infiltration, so a repair will inevitable require not only reconstructing the foundation, but waterproofing and moving the hot water heater while all this goes on. If you’ve been through anything like, where should I start and what should I expect?

kevrob

in General Discussion 4 years and 5 months ago

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restorationcontractor | 4 years and 5 months ago

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@Cate, I read and understood the same thing you did, @Urbandad just has trouble with reading comprehension.

@ESCIV it’s always better to stop the water from coming in from the exterior, but as you say if you can do that, a potential solution is to install dimple drain mat on the inside of the foundation wall directing the water to french drains or a baseboard waterproofing channel directed to an automatic sump pump.

Retrofit dimple drain and french drain waterproofing system;

https://hammerandhand.com/best-practices/manual/7-basements/7-4-basement-retrofit/

An example of a baseboard waterproofing system;

https://waterproof.com/product/water-xtract-basement-waterproofing-channel/

You may want to investigate further where the water is coming in from. Is it a partially clogged sewer? A broken or missing leader pipe? Backpitched exterior grade? etc etc.

I am wondering what your soil conditions are if it could be groundwater. My shop is on the border of Prospect/Crown heights, when we excavated my cellar it was some of the dryest hardest packed soil I have ever come ac ross. Some areas even needed to be lightly jackhammered. It’s all glacial till, (soil and rock that dropped out of the glaciers after the last ice age). You said you were in Prospect Heights so just wondering.

Try to post photos of the area, not just behind the hot water heater (especially if you can’t get to it).

cate | 4 years and 5 months ago

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Urbandad, I think OP means water is coming through the cellar walls from under the ground outside, since the cellar is below ground, not that water is coming up from the cellar floor.

hkapstein | 4 years and 5 months ago

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Assuming it was water infiltration from the ground, I do not think you should do a big project to try to seal the floor. Hydrostatic pressure is very powerful, and if there is water in the ground coming in the usual strategy is to let it in, and drain it into a sump pump that pumps it into the main drain or, rarely in NYC, a drywell. Installing a sump pump would be much cheaper than a big waterproofing job with foundation work, so why not try that?

Now it might not be the best solution if the water is coming from somewhere else, but I’m working off what you’re telling me you and the contractors have investigated.

cate | 4 years and 5 months ago

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It’s possible to have multiple holes feeding into a chimney or chimneys. How is your hot water heater vented — how does it connect to a chimney to release combustion products to the outside? Make sure you don’t do anything to harm your chimney or its flues or access points. Maybe get a chimney person to look at the hole. As for “water infiltration,” it’s constant in 19th century Brooklyn cellars, particularly those with rubble walls, even if you don’t live in an area prone to floods. AFAIK you cannot genuinely waterproof from the interior, but you can keep repointing and parging every 10 years to address the effects of the constant drip, drip, drip.

kevrob | 4 years and 5 months ago

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@ Steve – If something with 4 legs did this, I’m moving out and it can have the house because it’s a LOT of crumbling.
@Eman – I thought your chimney suggestion was genius as well, as this area is about 4′ to the left of an unused chimney line. But ours is capped at the top. I even went up there and dumped a 5 gallon bucket over it to make sure it was holding up. No issue I can see there.

kevrob | 4 years and 5 months ago

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A little update for those who might be interested: consensus among several contractors who’ve come out is that it’s the result of rain/groundwater infiltration, likely due to the $%@!% state of the city sewer lines in our part of Prospect Heights (a known issue the city is tackling over the next infinity years). Since nothing can be done about that from the outside, addressing it from the inside has yielded two suggestions: just move the water heaters, repair and waterproof above the floor line OR move the water heaters, dig down about 3′ to put in a membrane and waterproof the foundation at a deeper level, then pour new concrete and repair waterproof above the floor line as well. I’m inclined to go all in on this. We had a boiler room flood in last summer’s big rains, and I thought I’d tagged and fixed the issue, but I now have a very strong suspicion that this was the real source of the carnage. Thoughts?

restorationcontractor | 4 years and 5 months ago

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@Eman good call on the possible chimney. Maybe even the hot water heaters chimney itself?

Guest User | 4 years and 5 months ago

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check that you are not in line with an unused chimney that is open at the top….my neighbor blamed me for years about a similar problem, but it was solved when i reroofed and my roofer covered the open chimney with membrane

stevecym | 4 years and 5 months ago

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Could something with 4 legs have done this?

kevrob | 4 years and 5 months ago

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Yeah, I really want to know that too, because I’m stumped. This wall is a common party wall in the cellar, about 10′ back from the front of the building and 30′ back from the street. There’s no plumbing above in either our building or the neighbors building, and the water only comes in during really heavy rains, so I suspect groundwater from the street. But why here, I dunno. The neighboring building’s sewer line runs along that wall on their side, but that doesn’t seem to be the culprit as their cellar is dry. I’ll try and get a pic but the space behind the water heater is narrow. Thanks everyone for the advice so far.

restorationcontractor | 4 years and 5 months ago

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ESCIV I would want to find out where the water that washed the sand into your cellar is coming from. Fixing that would be the first order of business to prevent this from getting worse.
After that it seems like it would just be a simple foundation repair.
Can you post a photo?

JohnHancock | 4 years and 5 months ago

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It will also cut the life short of your water heater. It will always draw up wet air from below and rust out your wh. I had to put a pan under mine

kevrob | 4 years and 5 months ago

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That would be nice. I’ve got a contractor I know and trust coming to take a look tomorrow — the kind of “here’s what you’re gonna do” guy who I hope can keep me from getting fleeced by someone who smells my inexperience. I have a hunch it’ll be a bit more involved than that, but I’d be delighted if you’re musing proved correct, Bob.

RobertGMarvin

in General Discussion 4 years and 5 months ago

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I wonder if a DIY repair with hydraulic cement would do the job?