Steel columns in basement

Wherebklyn, I didn’t realize this is for a house you are considering purchasing and not one you already own. Just FYI, in case you want more info about this, the cause of our structure problems were leaks and termites. The consequences for us have luckily been not very serious, but here’s what we’ve discovered over time (and did not see during the inspection): Rear corner of house dropped about three inches, floor broke off from baseboard molding in rear hall at back door, spongey lintel and broken cement in mudroom because the threshold of the house and toilet room are not supported by the rear and last floor joist, holes around the door area (stuff with steel wool to keep out rodents), stair on third floor badly warped, whole stair very noisy, railing pulled out from newel posts on two floors (we saw it but didn’t realize it would be impossible to fix short of replacing the whole stair), and empty pocket door cavities appearing to be different sizes and possibly twisted so they might not be able to accept new pocket doors. If you think you might have a termite issue or just want to make sure you don’t, get an exterminator in there *before* you fix the structural problems, as we found out the hard way. (Use a small one, not a national chain. Ed of Empire Pest is one.) We still have not successfully addressed the leak problems, since they are connected to neighboring properties, but we are working on it. BTW, I get the impression most of the old houses in Brooklyn have these problems with the beams and posts.

callalily

in Foundation 13 years and 1 month ago

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wherebklyn | 13 years and 1 month ago

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http://cdn.brownstoner.com/4f674a2abce1a-.png

Looking for cost estimate for this job:  basement of old victorian house has screw jacks supporting the main wooden beam and, we’re told, that is below standard.  It should be supported by solid steel beams.  Looks like we would need at least 3 steel beams that are about 7-8′ high.  Also, there is separation between the main wooden beam and the main girder that has to be fixed.  Attached picture for reference.  Anyone in the ‘Stoner community have experience with this and can give an estimate of total cost?  Thanks!

stevecym | 13 years and 1 month ago

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I cannot see the condition of the wooden girder, but assuming it is ok, you can use the steel columns.  Now, I cannot tell if they are the temporary columns or the permanent (there are two types) and the permanant must be set on a footing and by footing I do not mean a brick placed on the floor of your basement.  The footing must be about 20″x20″x 18″ deep and I set that lower than the finished concrete.  I put rebar in the lower half and upper half of the footing with bolts set to the pattern of the bolt holes in the column plate.  I let that set.  then I take the jack columns and invert them so the threads are on the bottom and expand them into place.  then we pour more concrete up and over the threads and lever the concrete to the floor.  That is the way those columns should be used. Steve http://brownstoner.staging.wpengine.com/tinkerswagon

brucef | 13 years and 1 month ago

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Steve is on the right track. We understand the footings must be 18″ diameter, 36″ deep or equivelant. Sometimes sonotubes are OK or plywood forms. Column must be cement filled, fixed type, screw jacks are not OK. Raneiri on 2nd Ave stocks them. Not sure what you mean by main girder and main wooden beam??

callalily | 13 years and 1 month ago

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Yes I just had this done by Shamine. It cost $900\. They had a crew of three or four guys who took one day. They dug deep holes for two columns I think not three (but it might have been three), filled them with cement, installed them. They also fixed some improperly sistered joists that weren’t actually supported by the columns — I think they added new sisters, but maybe they just shimmed, can’t remember. They shimmed all the joists and columns that weren’t really connected and supported. I was very happy with their work except the shimming part. The shimming is OK, but the shims tend to work out of place with vibrations over time. I don’t know if there is another method that would be better. I think they did something else with the main beam, also, but can’t remember — sorry to be so vague. Basically, they fixed work done improperly by a prior crew. I found Shamine through Ed of Empire Pest. Shamine says he is licensed but I doubt it. At most he probably uses the license of another contractor. I’ve used them for yard work, sealing holes for pests in the basement roof and walls, and reparing a metal fence, and they’ve been great with these small things. They are very hard to get ahold of.

callalily | 13 years and 1 month ago

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Forgot, this $900 also included some yard work and fixing the fence, which took considerable time, so perhaps if it were just the basement it would be less.

brucef | 13 years and 1 month ago

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In a previous life, I owned a trucking company, and we sometimes would rig machinery. From that time we learned how to shim with a variety of steel plates. We use 30 ton hydraulic jacks to try to recapture some of the sag lost to – sag. Not for the faint of heart or even Tim the Toolman-types. Question is, do we try to just arrest further deflection, or attempt to straighten that which is bent? Nine hundred dollars seems awfully cheap to dig footings and install columns,I would expect to pay twice that. Restorative efforts (see above under regaining) would be extra.

anonymous | 13 years and 1 month ago

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i had this priced by several contractors and estimates ranged from $4500-$6500.  This was for (3) 11′ beams, 2 columns, and 2 footings.

wherebklyn | 13 years and 1 month ago

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Thanks everyone for your responses so far (except for that spammer bloostoner).  I’m going to ask for a copy of the cert of occupancy to try and find out if the previous work was approved/permitted.  My guess is that it wasn’t.  We’re also a little bit fearful if any prior structural damage occurred on the first floor when the old wooden columns started to get separated from the main beam in the basement.  It doesn’t look like it when looking at the first floor rooms and the home inspector did not see anything bad.  but the inspector is not an engineer so we’ll probably have an engineer take a look.

brucef | 13 years and 1 month ago

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Don’t be surprised if a doc search reveals little of interest. This type of work does not change egress or move anything, so it would not need a permit. Old houses require detectives, not engineers. (Some engineers are detectives but most are not). Your desire for certainty and truth is unrealistic in regards to old houses. Not that you should accept falsehood, but that events happened over time, and what we see now is just one image in a flow.