Refinishing Pine Sub-Floor
First off, details: These are 100-year-old sub-floor tongue and groove knotty pine that are appox. 6″ in width. The floors were refinished 10 years ago and since that time have taken a lot of knicks and dings (being a soft wood). There are a dozen or so areas that need wood repair as well, so I figure it best to do repair and refinish at the same time. Some people would say just lay a new floor on top of this, but I would prefer the “rustic” look. I have read the archived posts on this subject and have jotted down the recommendations on floor finishers and I will contact them shortly. If anyone has had similar floors done to mine, that are sub-floors with gaps and need wood repairs as part of the job, and has a good recommendation that would be very helpful. A couple other questions for anyone that has experience with this stuff: Gaps: I am leaning toward leaving the gaps bare. The previous owner had them refinished and filler was applied between the boards. Well 10 years later only 50% of the filler remains due to compression and cracking, so I think that avenue is out. My gaps are no more than 3/8″ and usually in the 1/4″ range (and this is winter so they are smaller in the summertime), so I THINK they will look OK with open gaps. I have heard of people using rope but it doesn’t sound like everyone is happy with the results, anyone have an opinion on rope-filled gaps? Squeeking/loose boards: I figure now’s the time to alleviate as many squeeking boards as possible, what is the best and least-intrusive way of doing this? Lastly, what are people’s feelings on Poly vs. water-based with a soft floor such as pine? I have seen both and they both look OK to me, I’m more concerned with the durability and which will reduce the knicks and dings in the pine. Any recommendations on any or all parts above would be a huge help. Thanks
anonymous
in Flooring 13 years and 3 months ago
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theflooringgirl | 10 years and 9 months ago
I know it’s now 2 1/2 years later and you probably already did your project, but here are a few thoughts, in case others in the future can use this info. I would not fill the cracks…the filler will just pop out. The floors look more authentic without it anyway. I would use oil based poly for longer durability. I hope these 2 articles are helpful: [Can you refinish pine floors](http://theflooringgirl.com/hardwood-flooring/can-you-refinish-pine-floors-or-pine-steps.html “can you refinish pine floors”) [Oil v water based poly](http://theflooringgirl.com/featured/oil-vs-water-based-polyurethane-which-is-bes-for-refinishing-hardwood-floors.html “oil v water based polyurethane”)
anonymous | 13 years and 3 months ago
Dave, I found what you are talking about http://www.thisoldhouse.com/toh/article/0,,203171,00.html, but I am planning on finishing the joists underneath the floor and then filling in between drywall, so this device would probably show. I think I will start with the shim method that they speak of in this article. Mopar, thank for the advice, I’m still on the fence about going the poly route as it can look dead but I like the durability factor… and definitely will NOT be staining. LuvdaBorstch, I would love to know who did your floors by adding strips, I am very interested.
daveinbedstuy | 13 years and 3 months ago
There was a recent Ask Tgis Old House about squueeky floors. They had a very interesting system to repair them. First you need to locate the joists. Then you predrill a hole. Using a special bit provoded by the manufacturer, special crews are then used that bite the joist st well as the floor boards and then snap off at the top. Minute holes are filled with matching putty. I’m sure you can find the video online. I agree with the others on NOT using putty or rope between the joints.
callalily | 13 years and 3 months ago
The old pine sub floors look extremely beautiful when refinished even though they are far from perfect. Be careful about staining — they do not take stain evenly and it is unwise to try to go dark.
anonymous | 13 years and 3 months ago
Luvdaborstch, I actually saw that video online but thought it would be too expensive to consider, did you do this install yourself or did you have a contractor do it? Was it reasonably priced? I would love to see picture if you get time to post.
callalily | 13 years and 3 months ago
I have the same old pine sub floor. I didn’t bother filling the cracks with putty because I don’t like the look of it, and it just pops out. However, previous owners filled actual holes with putty, and it seems to work just fine. I don’t mind its appearance either. So I would say don’t put the putty *between* the boards, but go ahead and put it *on top* if it needs it. Or you could get twee with zinc patches. The refinishing guys will patch boards with spare boards from here and there if you have a board that is breaking because it doesn’t end on a joist. We are happy with our four coats of water-based satin-finished poly, but have only been here two years. I briefly lived in a place that had massive amounts of oil-based poly (gym floor but satin or semi-gloss maybe?) and it did seem rock solid and is probably far more durable. OTOH if you wax instead of poly, you’ll never have to sand again but it’s a lot of maintenance. I don’t think I could live with gaps in the boards if it were a kitchen floor (food, mice, yech) but we have Marmoleum in there and vinyl in the bathroom. As for squeaks, it’s caused by floor boards moving, usually because they’re not sitting snug on the joists. Not much you can do about it, unless you want to tear up the ceilings below and shim. And even then it might not really fix the problem.
brokelin | 13 years and 3 months ago
oooh…like those uk slivers. wonder if the would pop out over time.
brokelin | 13 years and 3 months ago
I am currently living with hundred year old soft pine floors, though not wide boards like yours. Yes, the wider cracks that were filled all have cracked and shrunken filler, and I am convinced that the filler probably looked unsightly to begin with, due to its dull, uniform color, unlike the wood grain in the boards. I would still fill the big cracks, sorry I have no recs for better filling methods. were I to refinish these, I would look into filling with a narrow piece of pine board, even if it meant slightly enlarging the bigger spaces to do this, as that would be less unsightly than filler, and not shrink, but I do not know how wide the piece would have to be to stay in place over time, so ask a floorer. But I definitely second not filling the narrow cracks you reference…that just makes a mess. I have unfilled cracks of that size, and they are fine. the only way they would be a problem would be if the floorboards move so much that the cracks pinched your feet when walking barefoot, as that really hurts. Luckily, mine do not move except in a few small places, so I do not get pinched by small cracks. this may be because I am in larger apartment building, not a brownstone type house, so construction of floors may be different. Given that you mention squeaks, yours may move more, but is sounds like you want to stop the ones that creak from moving. I have read of filling small cracks with wood dust instead of filler, but do not know how well this works. I do not know what was used on these floors, as they were refinished before I got here, but I am convinced from how the surface behaves that it is not poly, neither water or oil based poly. Perhaps varnish, perhaps some other non poly wood treatment. It is so much nicer than poly…does not chip, flake, or separate from the floor boars like poly when it wears. It also does not react as well as poly if you leave a damp towel on it. the finish is soaked into the wood, and behaves more like fine furniture finish. It it a bit shiny, not matt, and makes the unstained yellowish pine boards look great. Everyone exclaims how beautiful my floors are. so check out non poly finishes mentioned in posts here, like waterlox and tung oil, and varnish. I do not think the finish here is wax, though that is also an option, although aslmost as messy as refinishing when it comes time to redo it. I have seen it done to good effect on dark stained oak, but have not seen it on soft pine. I think I prefer the varnish like surface to a wax surface on unstained pine. I suspect it wears better. as to preventing dings, you have to be careful never to drop anything remotely heavy. do not walk on it in shoes with hard rubber heels…in my case, the cleats on my clip in bike shoes leave dents, as does using the kickstand on my bike. I know someone who refinished the pine floors in her house, only to have party guests in high heels leave little dents all over, so monitor shoes worn. to prevent dings, I unfornately have to cover a lot of the floor with rugs. actually, I like a lot of rugs, but I have found the two foot spaces between rugs to be problematic here, as they never were with my slightly older oak parquet floors in other apartments. Be especially careful to put a large enough rug, with thick padding, under dining tables, such that the the back chair legs never come into contact with the floor no matter how far the chairs are pushed back by guests. cover the entire working area of the kitchen floor with rugs or runners if you have pine in there, as you do drop things in there, or I do. and rolling desk chairs that never marred oak floors will cause pine boards to actually splinter, so use floor protection under these, too. Never move any piece of furniture, no matter how small, without picking it up. I use those plastic sliders under my bedposts and sofa bed to move them. as to dings, the problem is not so much as what surface finish is on the boards, as scratches either rub out, or else are deeper than the finish, much as with the oak floor I have had previously. The big difference from oak is that the dings are usually actual dents in the wood itself, even where the finish remains unscratched, as the pine dents easily, unlike oak, which you really have to try hard to dent. I have read online that dents can be raised back up using steam before refinishing, so I would see if you can find a floor refinisher who knows about this, or try it yourself with a steam iron, but only just before refinishing, as it will wreck the current finish. despite all these cautions, I must say they are as beautiful as my old oak parquet in former homes, so you are right not to cover them over. most old wood floors are more beautiful than new floorboards, in my opinion. good luck.
luvdaborstch | 13 years and 3 months ago
also – initially finished with a water based, and it waas very thin, and did not protect the pine floor or seal it well, what with the old nail holes etc. A month later we decided to re-do with poly based with much better results. WIth 2 kids and high trafic area, it is holding up much better than the water based did. COlor of the floor is warmenr and darker with poly, it was much lighter with waterbased finish.
luvdaborstch | 13 years and 3 months ago
We re finished similar subfloor, closed the gaps by using some old pine wedges, as seen in this company’s video from UK. Worked out pretty well, smoothed out the floor. http://oldpinecompany.co.uk/acatalog/About_Old_Pine_Slivers.html
moneymogul | 13 years and 3 months ago
If you have it done correctly then 1/4 gaps between boards can look rustic. Personally, I have never liked the rope thing.