repainting brownstone facade
Hey, I have a brownstone in a non landmarked district that has since been painted white. I think the original stone is to damaged to remove the paint, so I was going to repaint it with a brownstone colored paint. I cant seem to figure out what paint to use and the exact color to use that most similarly represents a brownstone. I have seen a lot of painted brownstones that I have to take a second look to see if it was painting or its the original stone. any help with this would be great.
Thank you
tashia43
in Exteriors 8 years and 8 months ago
47
Please log in, in order to post replies!
47 replies
hkapstein | 3 years and 11 months ago
There should be a photo in the landmarks archives from the designation report. If the designation was in 2007 I’ll bet it’s color. Ask the preservation rep if they can provide it, if not you may have to file form or freedom of information type request, but you should be able to get it.
That said, if it was pink in 2011, it was probably pink in 2007. If it was pink in 2007, tell your preservationist you’re going to be forced to paint it pink unless they can clear you to paint it another color. I think if you kiss up a little and make it clear there’s no budget for a new facade, they will work with you.
m_holmes925
in Exteriors 3 years and 11 months ago
I did the research before inquiring and reviewed all the available documents on nyc.gov, including the 2007 designation report for our historic district. We selected the contractor, understood from the documents that it is clear we can propose a color that matches the existing brownstone color, and thought we were ready to specify the color until we learned that our neighbor two doors down had issues. We were just curious if anyone on this forum had first hand experience since we believe our neighbor did everything correctly and she did follow LPC’s rules and procedures which we found alarming.
The 2007 designation report only states that the facade was painted but there is no actual color mentioned. The latest 1980’s tax photo appears to be the original brownstone and the earliest google street view from 2011 captures the facade painted pink. There appears to be a black hole in the 00’s when the landmarked district was documented. I was hoping to submit the 198 0’s tax photo as evidence but the stoop is painted fire engine red. Since we plan to restore the stoop entirely we hope this is not an issue.
m_holmes925
in Exteriors 3 years and 11 months ago
I did the research before inquiring and reviewed all the available documents on nyc.gov, including the 2007 designation report for our historic district. We selected the contractor, understood from the documents that it is clear we can propose a color that matches the existing brownstone color, and thought we were ready to specify the color until we learned that our neighbor two doors down had issues. We were just curious if anyone on this forum had first hand experience since we believe our neighbor did everything correctly and she did follow LPC’s rules and procedures which we found alarming.
The 2007 designation report only states that the facade was painted but there is no actual color mentioned. The latest 1980’s tax photo appears to be the original brownstone and the earliest google street view from 2011 captures the facade painted pink. There appears to be a black hole in the 00’s when the landmarked district was documented. I was hoping to submit the 198 0’s tax photo as evidence but the stoop is painted fire engine red. Since we plan to restore the stoop entirely we hope this is not an issue.
NeoGrec | 3 years and 11 months ago
Forgot to mention that the color of your house should be mentioned in the original designation report which has details about every single address in each historic district. Takes some digging on Nyc.gov but it will be there.
NeoGrec | 3 years and 11 months ago
Please go to nyc.gov where there’s a huge amount of information about LPC’s rules and procedures. I am 99.9% certain you can repaint in the original color — that is, whatever the color was at the time the house was designated part of a historic district. If that turns out to be the pink you want to change, I would strongly recommend you reach out in person to LPC. They have their issues (shortage of staff being one of the biggest) but it is not like dealing with DOB. They actually want to help homeowners. Logic would suggest they would rather you repainted in a “brownstone” color than re-upped with the pink. You could also try to find a local advocate to help you navigate LPC and support your request. Brownstoners of Bed Stuy, Park Slope Civic Council, Prospect Heights Neighborhood Development Council etc. can all play this role. Most neighborhoods have a similar group. It’s worth trying.
RobertGMarvin
in Exteriors 3 years and 11 months ago
The existing pink color might have been there at the time of landmark designation. If so it’s grandfathered in and could have been redone in the same ugly color.
m_holmes925
in Exteriors 3 years and 11 months ago
Thanks cate, stripping the facade seems like a great idea and I wish we could but the stone is very fragile and pieces of it have fallen off over the years. Of the three masonry contractors we spoke to, nobody said this was an option. Also super interesting that the house was painted pink with approval! Thanks again
m_holmes925
in Exteriors 3 years and 11 months ago
Thanks cate, stripping the facade seems like a great idea and I wish we could but the stone is very fragile and pieces of it have fallen off over the years. Of the three masonry contractors we spoke to, nobody said this was an option. Also super interesting that the house was painted pink with approval! Thanks again
cate | 3 years and 11 months ago
FWIW the Park Slope house with pink paint was repainted brown by a flipper with LPC permission. But that was also under a previous LPC commissioner. YMMV. What about stripping the facade to return it to the original stone without also having to redo the brownstone? Is that an option? I know someone who stripped their facade using chemicals (no power wash, no abrading) and was able to leave the original stone alone.
m_holmes925
in Exteriors 3 years and 11 months ago
Many thanks all for your input. I spoke to the contractor who said he has ONLY repainted facades the same color with LPC approval. If anyone happens to have first hand experience painting a landmarked facade that was approved, I would sincerely appreciate it if you could share your experiences. I am realizing this is more rare than I expected.
m_holmes925
in Exteriors 3 years and 11 months ago
Many thanks all for your input. I spoke to the contractor who said he has ONLY repainted facades the same color with LPC approval. If anyone happens to have first hand experience painting a landmarked facade that was approved, I would sincerely appreciate it if you could share your experiences. I am realizing this is more rare than I expected.
Guest User | 3 years and 11 months ago
Thank you for sharing, this context would have been helpful in the original post. Doesn’t seem like you have a choice here. In the past, I have had luck putting together a document with supporting rationale to make a case.
m_holmes925
in Exteriors 3 years and 11 months ago
The painting is part of a larger LPC application consisting of new windows, restored stoop (we will do the full brownstone restoration on that), and facade painting. Janedrew, you’re correct – no DOB permit required. It seems complicated to leave the painting off the permit, but also to bring the contractor back at a later date because we will need to submit a PAA after the permitted work is done which involves photo documentation. My neighbor also filed for the repainting as part of a much larger job but she plans to repaint it without a permit a few years down the road after having been denied. However, we are desperate to do this painting ASAP so people stop mistaking it for an abandoned house.
m_holmes925
in Exteriors 3 years and 11 months ago
The painting is part of a larger LPC application consisting of new windows, restored stoop (we will do the full brownstone restoration on that), and facade painting. Janedrew, you’re correct – no DOB permit required. It seems complicated to leave the painting off the permit, but also to bring the contractor back at a later date because we will need to submit a PAA after the permitted work is done which involves photo documentation. My neighbor also filed for the repainting as part of a much larger job but she plans to repaint it without a permit a few years down the road after having been denied. However, we are desperate to do this painting ASAP so people stop mistaking it for an abandoned house.
Guest User | 3 years and 11 months ago
No DOB permit needed for painting per 1_RCNY_101-14. But make sure you get the scaffolding permit if needed. Here’s the thing, let’s say someone complained to DOB as long as you get a scaffolding permit (if needed) you should be fine. Let’s imagine for a second you got a LPC violation, I think you have a good case and tons of people have those and for years. It’s not a hassle like the DOB violation.
hkapstein | 3 years and 11 months ago
I’m leaning towards agreeing with janedrew’s suggestion to just do it, unless you have to get a DOB permit in conjunction with this work which would likely have a landmarks item to complete for it to be issued.
However, one item you need to think about is the possibility of lead paint and how you will keep it out of the street when prepping it. I’ve seen folks remove facade paint in an unsafe manner, and it was not popular with the neighbors.
Guest User | 3 years and 11 months ago
We understood that you had no desire to repaint it pink. I think very few people would. Per the Guidebook, your neighbor did not need to ask for permission. In your neighbor’s situation, asking resulted in a refusal that could have possibly been avoided. I don’t know all the details …maybe there was more than just paint. In your situation, you may very well get a different preservationist who may approve it. If you can make a convincing case with rationale that more or less follows rules, generally they will approve.
m_holmes925
in Exteriors 3 years and 11 months ago
Thank you all for your input. Bob Marvin is correct; we have no desire to repaint the house the same pink color. The LPC manual does state that repainting the house to match the original brownstone is an option with approval, but since my neighbor had issues that did not align with LPC’s guidebook, I wondered if anyone dealt with this issue firsthand. The existing color of her house is white, and when asked to repaint it white they denied her application.
Thanks again for all your thoughts.
m_holmes925
in Exteriors 3 years and 11 months ago
Thank you all for your input. Bob Marvin is correct; we have no desire to repaint the house the same pink color. The LPC manual does state that repainting the house to match the original brownstone is an option with approval, but since my neighbor had issues that did not align with LPC’s guidebook, I wondered if anyone dealt with this issue firsthand. The existing color of her house is white, and when asked to repaint it white they denied her application.
Thanks again for all your thoughts.