Expeditor Consultation needed

lilitrue, Thanks so much for posting that back here. Sounds like that confirms what has been the “understanding” among many expediters and architects, but it’s good to hear it from the horse’s mouth, so to speak.

dazednconfused2

in Expeditors 10 years and 9 months ago

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lilitrue | 10 years and 10 months ago

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I’m looking to hire an expeditor for an hour meeting to review whether it is possible/impossible to build up in my 4 unit 1910 coop building (I have board approval). We are looking to raise the roof on a portion of our attic and add a stair within our unit. The building was converted in 1980 to a multiple dwelling and I know no additions can be made per NYS 1929 code; however, NYC 1968 code defines a Penthouse as not adding to the height or square footage of the building as long as it is 33% or less of the building (so technically not an ‘addition’). This addition would also be on the attic floor (which I have been assured is structurally sound by an engineer) and has a current head clearance of ~4′. We would only be raising the roof another 4′-5′. Just looking for sound advice so I know whether to pursue this renovation or move. Please let me know if you are interested in having a meeting to review options. Also would consider ‘pre-filing’ with the city to see if it is something they would approve (don’t want to waste money on final drawings for something that cannot be built). Many thanks!

lmtuzyjcftvgonr | 10 years and 10 months ago

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I am not sure meeting with an expeditor is your best bet. Your best option maybe to sit down with an architectural design professional, that can help you navigate and analyze the existing codes. If you like, I can assist you. You may contact me via email mosfigulaktar@gmail.com or visit my site www.aktargroup.com.

jockdeboeraia | 10 years and 10 months ago

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You need an architect, not an expediter.

dazednconfused2 | 10 years and 10 months ago

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This is something that comes up a lot. I’ve spoken with a few expediters/code consultants about it and have gotten mixed answers. As you say, the Multiple Dwelling Law prohibits the enlargement of a multiple dwelling, but the New York City Building and Zoning codes would otherwise allow it. The MLD is a state law, which in some circumstances override the city laws, but I’ve never been able to get a straight answer from the DOB as to which governs here. I agree with Mosfigul and Jock that you would need to work with an architect, and as you said, it would probably be best to file a predetermination to get an answer on this before you go through the efforts of planning the whole thing. Whoever you choose to work with, please post back here and let us know if you were able to do it, and if you don’t mind sharing, how. It could open a floodgate of possible vertical extensions. Jim Hill, RA, LEED AP Urban Pioneering Architecture

rastermon | 10 years and 10 months ago

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So, if you are not a multiple dwelling and are filing under 1968 code, a penthouse addition would be allowed and would not count as additional square footage? Is there precedent for that?

dazednconfused2 | 10 years and 10 months ago

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Close. A true “penthouse” is limited to I think 1/3 of the roof area, and is exempted from building height, but counts towards floor area. Otherwise, you could add a full floor (or more) if or course it complies with zoning height and floor area allowance. No need for precedent as it is as of right. We’re just finishing one up on 16th street, where we added onto the back of the existing three stories, and added a fourth floor to about 2/3 of the roof (including the rear extension).

lilitrue | 10 years and 10 months ago

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We have plenty of FAR on the building and wouldn’t exceed it. It is just a question about whose code wins out in NYC – the state or the city. I’m not sure if the DOB will make the decision or make it a court matter? James, I will be on touch regarding filing for a redetermination. As an FYI – two buildings on our street have similar additions as to what we are propaoig. One was done legally prior to conversion. The other was done illegally in the 1990s and got an amended C of O when the building was should in the mid 2000s.

lilitrue | 10 years and 10 months ago

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We have plenty of FAR on the building and wouldn’t exceed it. It is just a question about whose code wins out in NYC – the state or the city. I’m not sure if the DOB will make the decision or make it a court matter? James, I will be on touch regarding filing for a predetermination. As an FYI – two buildings on our street have similar additions as to what we are proposing. One was done legally prior to conversion. The other was done illegally in the 1990s and got an amended C of O when the building was sold in the mid 2000s.

jcarch | 10 years and 10 months ago

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Lilitrue…it’s true that penthouses are not considered a ‘floor’ by DOB, and are limited to 1/3 of the floor below. This is very useful in adding a 5th “floor” penthouse to a building, since a true 5th floor would mean an elevator would be required. But penthouses do count as floor area, and are considered an addition. So I don’t see how making the addition a penthouse helps you, as it’s still an enlargement. If you submit to DOB, and your plan examiner is competent, this will be an objection that you won’t be able to clear. Others may know of a way to enlarge your building, but I think this may be a dead end. If it’s not, please let the b’stoner community know! jcarch ———————— James Cleary Architecture brownstoner.staging.wpengine.com/jamescleary

arch007 | 10 years and 10 months ago

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go to DOB on tues afternoon “homeowners night” for free advice from a plan examiner..chances are he will not know however. I agree with above, get a predetermination from DOB(tho they are not called that anymore) for that you will need an architect. You could write to the state attorney general..they answered a question I had about NY state bldg codes Vs the Multiple Residence Law (which is like the MDL but for smaller cities) if you want to pay us we will get the right answer, but it will take more than 1 hour. http://nyc-dob.com

lilitrue | 10 years and 9 months ago

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@arch007 – thanks for the advice. I attended the “homeowners night” today and met with two plan examiners with copies of codes (1968 & MDL), C of O, pictures of adjacent buildings with additions, zoning plan, FAR rights, etc. Turns out the state wins. MDL trumps any city law so the addition we were hoping to do is a no go. Also, the ones on adjacent buildings on my block are also probably illegal and/or grandfathered in. Also, as an aside, the main plan examiner I spoke to said that pre-determinations were a waste of time as they were no guarantee of future approvals. Too bad that we will have to move now as we have outgrown our space. I want to stay in BK, but not sure we can afford it…