Are these fees reasonable?

We just got a quote from an Expediter for a Brownstone gut rehab, and I can’t tell if it is high or in the ballpark. Here it is: Code and zoning consulting: $250/mtg ALT I $4350 Landmarks $3000 ALT II $2150 Permits for Alt I $950 Construction fence permit $350 Plumbing permit $375 Sheeting and shoring permit $650 Special inspections $975 Equipment use approval $350 Equipment use permits $150/ea C of O $12,500 Construction signoff $975/ea Withdrawal of applications pending $1075/ea Final sign for sheeting/shoring $650 Permits for underpinning, sheeting, shoring, foundation, and excavation $750 Alt II Boiler Approval $1350 Boiler permit $350 Special inspection boiler chimney & flue $575 Boiler signoff $750 or Temporary C of O $7500 Renewal of TCO every 90 days $950/ea Amendments $1350/ea Change to applicant of record for inspections $350/ea Predetermination/Determination filed with DOB Boro commissioner $2500/ea Builder?s Pavement plan signoff/concrete test reports $600 Pluming signoff with OP 98 for roughing and finishes $600/ea Boiler signoff with OP 98 for roughing and finishes $600/ea Dismissal of DOB violations $450/ea Dismissal Environmental Control Board violations $750/ea Attending ECB hearing $250/ea After hour work permits $350/ea @ DOB After hour permits filed @ Dept of Transportation $175/ea Total: Approx $28,750 Can anyone advise?

lsilverbush

in Expeditors 9 years and 3 months ago

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Guest User | 9 years and 2 months ago

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Architect here. I don’t think the fee schedule is competitive. An Alt 2 can be as low as $1,750 and their $3,000 for LPC is just silly. If an LPC submission is for a simple letter of no effect, the fee should be a few hundred dollars. If it gets ugly and there’s a protracted back and forth or presentation to the community board, the expeditor can’t even help with that. This said, choose your architect first and ask them how much, if any, expediting they can handle themselves. We e-file our applications for approval and only use an expeditor when a body is actually needed to wait in line down at the DOB. If the job can be e-filed, your architect should be able to do that for you and for very little fee.

JorgeF | 9 years and 2 months ago

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This is crazy expensive 950 to renew a TCO – renewing a TCO requires a 1 page form to be filled out and a couple hours of your time at the DOB, AT MOST A COUPLE HOURS. If you work with an architect who does the expediting in house you will probably save a significant amount of money. I will never understand why so many architects don’t do expediting in house. And I will never understand why expediters charge so much. If an architect hires a full time expediter at a reasonable salary they can literally save every one of their clients thousands of dollars while still making profit. If your architect files the job on the HUB you can save on expediting as a large portion of the expediting is online so there is no paying someone to stand around at the DOB all day waiting. I am an architect I do all expediting in house (I am not pandering for this job) but 950 to renew a TCO you have to be smoking crack.

espeon | 9 years and 3 months ago

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Mr. Positive, how can you make such a negative statement? Couldn’t resist …

dorkofwindsor | 9 years and 3 months ago

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“just got a quote from an Expediter” so lets get this straight – there is no architect and no GC, just owner talking to expediter. sounds like expediter just gave a guess or the whole schedule of fees. no harm no foul. just like DIBS said. If you ask someone a general question, you will get a general answer. but i’d hire the architect first. and i’d are an expediter that the arch is happy with.

daveinbedstuy | 9 years and 3 months ago

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They won’t. That’s just a summation of what they all add up to if ALL of them were necessary. Many won’t be necessary.

randolph | 9 years and 3 months ago

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Even if it’s a schedule of fees the expediting and permits and inspections for a brownstone gut renovation should not cost anywhere near “approx. $28,750”.

daveinbedstuy | 9 years and 3 months ago

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Schedule of fees. Nothing more.

boredatwork | 9 years and 3 months ago

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This is clearly a schedule of fees as it includes responding at ECB and DOB for yet-to-be incurred violations. And I have no idea if these are reasonable as it was more than 10 years ago in Brooklyn. But we had no contact with him at all. We dealt with our architect and our GC. I assume the expeditor’s fees were included in the architect’s fees. see @slopefarm for some good advice.

randolph | 9 years and 3 months ago

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Whatever dude you can defend this absurd quote all you want, I am calling bullshit.

espeon | 9 years and 3 months ago

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Yes one might do so, but you yourself questioned it: “I?m not even sure why you need to file and alt2 if you are filing an alt1”? However we don’t know if both are being filed. They’re just on the same list because it seems to be a general schedule of fees, for example there may be no need to file a predetermination for anything or even get a temporary C/O etc. The OP has not pointed out which of those services are adding up to his 28K total.

randolph | 9 years and 3 months ago

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“Schedule of fees is to answer the post asking why there is an ALT-1 and 2.” What? One might file an alt2 to get started with demo work while you wait for the alt1 to get sorted out, but there is nothing in the original post or the expeditor quote to say this was the intention.

espeon | 9 years and 3 months ago

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If you say so Concator but there are certain qualifications beyond the project delivery method, perhaps not very relevant at the scale of government projects or large development but I think very much for private homeowners. Mr. Positive, if you feel majorly ripped off then you should shop around and hire the cheapest expeditor you’re satisfied with. If your project ends up in DOB purgatory you can come here and ask how to fix it and sue the expeditor. Schedule of fees is to answer the post asking why there is an ALT-1 and 2.

kassie319 | 9 years and 3 months ago

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What does an expeditor do for 3k for Landmarks? Whoever prepares your drawings should be dealing directly with LPC.

slopefarm | 9 years and 3 months ago

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Yeah, I think I agree with Mr. Positive. As for “it?s just a schedule of fees,” I would note that there is a total at the bottom, as if all the fees will be incurred.

randolph | 9 years and 3 months ago

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You really think Alt1 4350 C of O 12500 Is reasonable? Or this one Landmarks $3000 What does any of this even mean? 12500 when the final c of o is issued and 4350 up front to file the alt1? To me this schedule of fees is vague at best and is designed to confuse and scare an uneducated owner, allowing this expeditor to majorly rip them off.

slopefarm | 9 years and 3 months ago

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Homeowner here. Did a pretty crazy reno about a decade ago. If it is a big job. I would start with the architect, get on all fours about the scope of the job, plans, etc. I would have the architect vet the GC bids. You and architect decide together on whose bid to accept. Architect may have in house expediter or someone s/he typically uses. GC may pull his/her own permit or use an expediter. These costs should be built into or spelled out in your contracts with the architect and GC. Don’t try to hire the expediter yourself. I would not go the design-build route unless I had really strong recs for both the architect and GC involved or if I knew tons about renovation, costs, etc and had time to be around the job every day. I want some independence between GC and architect. You can use comments here on the proposed cost schedule to see whether costs included by architect or GC are reasonable.

concord | 9 years and 3 months ago

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Xagator, it does! The owner hires a contractor/developer and that party hires he architect to design what the owner wants…’owner requirements?. Otherwise it is a design-bid-built project…

espeon | 9 years and 3 months ago

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It’s customary for the homeowner to have contracts directly with the architect and expeditor unless any of these services are in-house. That’s the most prudent setup for many reasons and nobody will get “scr&d”. The architect or a design-build contractor are best suited to have a general advisory role and there is tremendous value in having a team that’s worked together before as Curated said. Unfortunately it’s often avoided because many believe they can reinvent a better and cheaper wheel. Btw, a contractor hiring an architect does not make it “design-build”.

neweco | 9 years and 3 months ago

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I agree with Concord. This isn’t something you want to get involved in.