Licensed electrician question

I live in an old brownstone apartment in BK.  My bedroom does not have a ceiling light and I would like to add one.  As far as electrical work is concerned this is a very basic job, no?  So why does the city require a permit for this job?  I have a feeling its more about raising revenue than safety…the city just wants a cut of a very basic job.   I spoke to two electricians.  One works at a lamp store and is not licensed (I guess he just fixes broken lamps) who said he could easily do the job.  He quoted me an incredibly good price.  I then called a licensed electrician and he said that the “correct” way to do it would be to file a permit with the city, but that this really wasn’t necessary and that if I could avoid the buildings department I should and that he would do the same work regardless of whether he filed for a permit or not.  His quote, was higher than the first guy.  Any thoughts?  If I did file for a permit, what would the city even inspect…that the electrician didn’t use exposed wiring or something absurd like that?  Wouldn’t the holes be all patched up anyway?

jimbeam

in Electricians 13 years and 2 months ago

6

Please log in, in order to post replies!

6 replies

Newest Oldest

Guest User | 13 years and 2 months ago

string(1) "3"
string(6) "195523"

We own a home and want to have ceiling fans installed as well. A contractor we worked with said that it’s best to use an electrician for such a thing if you live in an old home, which we do. He probably said that due to greenmt’s points. At any rate, mike-the-expeditor, if you use a licensed electrician and you are happy with his work, we’d love to get his name and number.

Townie | 13 years and 2 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#4820 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#4817 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(5) "70723"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(6) "Townie"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(34) "$P$BHD3oVuExLogAMJZwxq5xvDnzSzaSF/"
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(6) "townie"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(20) "Tpietrzak@NYC.rr.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(21) "/forums/users/totoro/"
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2017-08-10 14:29:59"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(20) "5fO74Kcn6ROdoMTkPvYt"
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(6) "Townie"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(70723)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(2) {
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(2) {
    [0]=>
    string(10) "subscriber"
    [1]=>
    string(15) "bbp_participant"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(4) {
    ["read"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_0"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

Why bother to hard wire it at all especially for two reasons. One your renting and two your electrician is going to have to chop holes in the plaster lath walls and ceiling in order to snake the wire which will mean plaster repair and painting. install a light hung from a well anchored hook in the ceiling, one that has a long cord that can be brought down along the wall and plugged into a nearby socket.

greenmountain | 13 years and 2 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#4816 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#4815 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(5) "12939"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(13) "greenmountain"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(34) "$P$BnKovbg4FcvougATD6kVp72yuOJzcG."
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(13) "greenmountain"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(23) "aaron@greenmountain.nyc"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(24) "http://greenmountain.nyc"
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2017-08-10 14:15:45"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(13) "greenmountain"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(12939)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(2) {
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(2) {
    [0]=>
    string(10) "subscriber"
    [1]=>
    string(15) "bbp_participant"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(4) {
    ["read"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_0"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

Putting aside the hassle and arguments about government regulation, reasonable as they may be, “jimbeam” didn’t mention from where the power for the new ceiling light would come?  Will his electrician run a new cable from the circuit panel?  From the existing lighting circuit?  From the nearest receptacle outlet?  Is the circuit or outlet properly grounded?  If not is it grounded through the right path, but not tightly connected? Is it grounded by the tin ceiling and radiator pipe?  Who knows or bothers to check?  Many houses and apartments have their circuits all mixed up – crazy, unevenly distributed, and shared by different functions.  Over the years the quickest, cheapest solutions have prevailed over planning and safety.  The light will come on, but the right way is not visible.  Somebody, eventually, will pay to clean up the mess.

daveinbedstuy | 13 years and 2 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#4819 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#4812 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(4) "3864"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(13) "daveinbedstuy"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(34) "$P$BtJYyObAQmff2MQp.qFP7/kmwU1bBZ1"
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(13) "daveinbedstuy"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(19) "djl135e54@yahoo.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(55) "http://bstoner.wpengine.com/forums/users/daveinbedstuy/"
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2017-08-10 14:23:53"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(13) "daveinbedstuy"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(3864)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(2) {
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(2) {
    [0]=>
    string(10) "subscriber"
    [1]=>
    string(15) "bbp_participant"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(4) {
    ["read"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_0"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

Either one is probably able to do the job, as are many homeowners but for slightly more money and your peace of mind, go with the electrician.  A lot of them wouldn’t even bother with a job this small so consider yourself lucky and keep his name around for any future jobs.  Forget about the permit for this level of work.  Chances are you already have a  lot of unpermitted work anyway, like most homes.   However, you say you live in an apartment, right.  As a renter????  Most landlords would frown upon renters doing this sort of work without permission.  No reason it can’t be done or shouldn’t be allowed but make sure you pass it by the landlord.

armchairwarrior | 13 years and 2 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#4820 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#4814 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(4) "3416"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(15) "armchairwarrior"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(15) "armchairwarrior"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(25) "drunkenondreams@yahoo.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(30) "/forums/users/armchairwarrior/"
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2017-08-10 14:12:45"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(15) "armchairwarrior"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(3416)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(2) {
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(2) {
    [0]=>
    string(10) "subscriber"
    [1]=>
    string(15) "bbp_participant"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(4) {
    ["read"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_0"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

you could always buy your own :p 12 or 14 gauge wires for the job :p. they are avaible in any hardware store.

mike-the-expeditor | 13 years and 2 months ago

string(1) "1"
object(WP_User)#4816 (8) {
  ["data"]=>
  object(stdClass)#5066 (12) {
    ["ID"]=>
    string(6) "179069"
    ["user_login"]=>
    string(18) "mike-the-expeditor"
    ["user_pass"]=>
    string(34) "$P$B3Yg0QSd8lKgxqDWllLycemTC6Kyza1"
    ["user_nicename"]=>
    string(18) "mike-the-expeditor"
    ["user_email"]=>
    string(24) "mike@escg-expediting.com"
    ["user_url"]=>
    string(33) "/forums/users/mike-the-expeditor/"
    ["user_registered"]=>
    string(19) "2017-08-10 14:38:12"
    ["user_activation_key"]=>
    string(0) ""
    ["user_status"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["display_name"]=>
    string(18) "mike-the-expeditor"
    ["spam"]=>
    string(1) "0"
    ["deleted"]=>
    string(1) "0"
  }
  ["ID"]=>
  int(179069)
  ["caps"]=>
  array(2) {
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["cap_key"]=>
  string(15) "wp_capabilities"
  ["roles"]=>
  array(2) {
    [0]=>
    string(10) "subscriber"
    [1]=>
    string(15) "bbp_participant"
  }
  ["allcaps"]=>
  array(4) {
    ["read"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["level_0"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["subscriber"]=>
    bool(true)
    ["bbp_participant"]=>
    bool(true)
  }
  ["filter"]=>
  NULL
  ["site_id":"WP_User":private]=>
  int(1)
}

The City requires a permit for nearly everything beyond changing a lightbulb.  The permit and fees (are supposed to) ensure that the job and work are inspected to ensure compliance with the electrical code.  The permit and fees (along with the wait) also drive many people to work outside the system, especially for a job as small as yours.

Unless you know alot about electrical things (e.g. you’d know if the lamp store guy was using aluminum rather than copper for the wiring) you’re probably better off using the licensed guy even though he’s more expensive.   At least with him it’s safe to assume that he knows how to run the cable and wire it into an existing circuit since his work has (likely) been inspected in the past. As for the permits, you’re supposed to get them… and I’ll leave it at that 😉