Does converting 1-family home to 2-family require Alt-1 when DOB lists as 2-fam?

What neighborhood is this in? Could you get away with doing the work quietly sans permits?

mt_molehill

in Dept. of Buildings (DOB) 9 years and 7 months ago

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sydeburn | 9 years and 7 months ago

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Please forgive me if this question has been asked a hundred times before. I?ve searched the archives here and I see folks with related questions, but none with our specific combo of requirements. My wife and I saw a house today and we?re considering making an offer. The house is configured as a 1 family, but we would want to add a kitchen and use it as a 2 family. We?d only make the offer if this can be done without Alt-1 hassles. Here?s what I?ve gathered as the relevant info: The DOF site shows it as a 1-fam The DOB site shows it as a 2-fam There?s no CoO and no Actions via DOB online No i-cards found via HPD online There?s only 1 gas and elec meter 3 story detached frame, single kitchen currently on garden level We?ll be mortgaging, but we qualify even as a 1-fam. I?ve read elsewhere in the forums that the DOB classification trumps the DOF. Given that, can I have elec/gas meters added, and add a kitchen to use this a legit 2 family without filing an Alt-1?

dazednconfused2 | 9 years and 7 months ago

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If there’s no C of O, where does the DOB say that it’s a two family? The DOB Property Profile Overview page shows the DOF classification, in your case probably “B1-2 FAMILY DWELLING”. Is this what you see on the site? If the DOB doesn’t have definitive records, they go by the HPD listing. Try that: https://hpdonline.hpdnyc.org/HPDonline/provide_address.aspx.

sydeburn | 9 years and 7 months ago

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Hi Jim, yes it was the DOB profile page that reports the house as 2 family. This conflicts with what I see from the DOF. Here’s the info I’ve gathered so far: The DOB search at http://a810-bisweb.nyc.gov/ reports the house as “B9-2 FAMILY DWELLING” (mixed construction, the first level is brick with frame above). The HPD search you linked to reports “A Units: 2” The DOF search at http://www1.nyc.gov/assets/finance/jump/property-maps/bk_fy16final.html reports “Total Units: 1” The DOF/ACRIS search at https://a836-acris.nyc.gov/DS/DocumentSearch/BBL show mortgage and deed docs that show the house as “DWELLING ONLY – 1 FAMILY” So I’m confused if the city will let me use this as a 2 family. If there were 2 gas/elec meters I’d feel a lot better about the whole thing, but I fear getting those installed will trigger an Alt-1\. This would be our first house purchase. I’m doing whatever research I can, but I’m still learning. Thanks for your input.

tm07 | 9 years and 7 months ago

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Physically go to the Brooklyn HPD office to ask for the icard. I live in Queens. I looked at my icard online and also went down to the Queens HPD. The one I got in person was different from the online one and was accurate.

dazednconfused2 | 9 years and 7 months ago

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The DOB listing B9 is actually the DOF classification. So given that and the fact that HPD shows it as 2 units, it seems to me that you wouldn’t need to change the C of O based purely upon number of families. It sounds to me like you’re restoring the house to its rightful use as a two-family. Without seeing exactly what you’re looking at, I couldn’t really comment on the DOF search or ACRIS, but it seems as though either the DOB’s DOF listing is out of date, or the DOF/ACRIS searches are. Either way, there’s a discrepancy. The DOB will typically use the HPD data. As for getting a copy of the actual I-card, that may not be possible as they were typically used for 3-family and up. Keep in mind that changes in the building configuration may trigger a C of O. Also keep in mind that filing an Alt-1 does not have to be that much more work than an Alt-2 if that Alt 2 involves separating out two units and adding a kitchen. It may add a few more thousand to architect’s and expediter’s fees, but it’s not outrageous. The amount of time that goes into an application for and DOB review of a significant renovation does not necessarily depend upon the Alt 1 or Alt 2, but is more tied into the scope of the actual work.

dexpediter | 9 years and 7 months ago

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You DO have to search the Brooklyn Dob and HPD (same floor same building) to see if DOB has a physical copy of the CofO. Also there may be an alteration filed that removed the kitchen and changed the legal status to 1 family at DOB which is not reflected at HPD or the DOF classification of B9 shown on the DOB page. If not then the HPD records are the legal records. Before you spend money, you need to know. Give me an address and I will look it up in Brooklyn tomorrow. The comment was correct that adding a new kitchen will be the issue because you don’t have 2 kitchens at the moment. You may not need a new CofO but you will still need all the same plans, gas and plumbing inspections and signoffs as an Alt-1\. if an alteration was filed to remove the kitchen you WILL need an Alt-1 and new CofO meaning EVERYTHING will need to be cleaned up.