Contractor threatening us
I know its an old story but any advice is welcome. A contractor began a job doing facade restoration and brownstone and concrete work with us. The work started ok but the quality went downhill and now is abysmal. They’re complaining they underbid the job and can’t continue. We’re saying we’ll pay when the work is done – which it is not, by a long shot. Now after a string of threatening emails they threaten on the phone to put a lien on our house. I’ve already put it in the Dept of Consumer Affairs databanks, but this is deeply worrying. What else can we do (besides hire someone else, as all of you most certainly should?) The contract hasn’t been fulfilled by any stretch of the imagination, but they declare it ‘complete’ and claim nonpayment.
AstralOil
in Construction 10 years and 11 months ago
36
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36 replies
charmin | 10 years and 10 months ago
hey its a tough spot to be in. but first do you have a signed contract which details listing the work to be completed , and with cost for the work. if yes then you have a leg to stand on, if no its going to be a uphill battle. this will go to litigation, small claims or civil. so be prepared. take photos! of everything. my advise is hold on and do not do any work on the property until this is resolved. do only necessary items to weatherproof. with estimates from at least 3 contractors. Good Luck.
soupman | 10 years and 11 months ago
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/47/230 The 1996 Law, which states that websites (like forums) don’t have to worry about getting sued over content that other people post on their sites.
deanbh | 10 years and 11 months ago
I had brownstoner admins remove a comment I made about a contractor previously and told me they had no protection under current UGC laws but as the developer behind www.LiveFanChat.com and numerous other websites I know that’s bullshit…..so yeh….its about selling more advertising. Not that there is anything wrong with that……everyones got to eat and this is Brownstoners bat and ball so they get to call the shots.
dorkofwindsor | 10 years and 11 months ago
I believe them ……. unfortunately. They are scared of their own shadow, local advertising rates are not huge vs legal costs that would wipe most of their hard work away. Unfortunately, I was hoping for more. I just don’t think the heart is in Brownstoner given all the other (more lucrative) businesses they are in. Personally, i would be more liberal with issues such as this, and take down posts that include contractor names when “the letter” arrives. OR, if it is a paying advertiser, give them a heads up in the chance they would like to come online and respond to clear their name. But it is a one way street, and as of now the site to me is just entertainment value. Unfortunately i have plenty of that already, and the number of shills is deafening.
concord | 10 years and 11 months ago
Cate, i do not buy it for a second…neither do many here – sadly!
cate | 10 years and 11 months ago
If the post mentioned a contractor who is NOT an advertiser, I still would have deleted it.
no-permits | 10 years and 11 months ago
mr b., get real legal advice like another user said. if you weren’t concerned about the advertising revenue from this contractor, you would have dropped them after several complaints against them on here already.
concord | 10 years and 11 months ago
Brownstoner, The main point here is that either the fourm members – who must adhere to the ‘terms of the forum – are free to post or they are not (because of advertisers). You must guve credit to the members to distinguish the shills and the ‘competitors’…this is Brooklyn after all. Yours and Cate’s post come out – regrettably – as cowtowing to advertisers…say it ain’t so (and act so). Hoping to remain a member…
nancyk | 10 years and 11 months ago
Mr. B- I understand the point that, in this instance, the name of the contractor, is irrelevant to the advice being sought. But, what if AstralOil had just posted that he/she wanted to share a “bad experience” with a contractor, i.e., substandard work, that would have been ok? Or, what if someone asked for a review of a contractor they were about to hire and there was a negative comment? Is that ok? Where do you draw the line? Being able to share both good and bad experiences is one of the important benefits of this blog.
zagor | 10 years and 11 months ago
PM? – private messaging might take care of this and cut down on responses that offer no substance other than contact info.
brownstoner | 10 years and 11 months ago
Hi Everyone, Just seeing this thread now. We are doing our best to provide a useful place for people to give and share advice. Handling negative comments that have the potential to ruin a business presents the trickiest balancing act of all. For example, there have been numerous instances over the years where a contractor has posed as a disgruntled home owner to trash a competitor. We have also spent quite a lot of money dealing with the legal repercussions when this kind of situation goes off the rails. Remember, it costs a lot of money to even respond to a legal matter, regardless of whether it has merit. In the case of this particular post, the name of the contractor seemed irrelevant to the advice the OP was seeking. We can understand why some people might disagree with this approach, but please try to understand that it’s a whole lot less black and white than it might seem. Granted, it can be more art than science and maybe we won’t always get it right. One thing you can rest assured about is that this is not advertiser-driven conspiracy. Mr. B
nancyk | 10 years and 11 months ago
cate — can you explain why this particular negative comment was filtered? what exactly is the legal issue? perhaps if you could provide an explanation, it would help.
dorkofwindsor | 10 years and 11 months ago
that is the point cate – i’m trying to figure out what Brownstoner actually is. and the conclusion isn’t great, cryptic non-responses and all. sorry for the OT this thread everyone. the forum was my last favorite thing about Brownstoner, now i see that the advertisers essentially own the content at their discretion. that will be my last post. happy renovating.
cate | 10 years and 11 months ago
I didn’t say you aren’t allowed to post negative comments. Not every negative comment about a named business raises legal issues. We try to filter out positive shill comments. Also, we are not Yelp.
dazednconfused2 | 10 years and 11 months ago
I would also add in, what kind of contract do you have with the contractor? We recommend using the AIA contract because it has specific language pertaining to this kind of thing. It’s come in handy in the past when we disagreed with the contractor’s estimate for work. The contract can essentially force the contractor to carry out the work, submit proof of costs after it’s done, and have an arbitrator settle the dispute based upon actual documentation.
dorkofwindsor | 10 years and 11 months ago
i get it cate. its not like you got a bullying cease and desist letter claiming some outrageous bluff, its that you would rather pre-emptively cut off any negative event that could result in receiving one. In my book that is called Milquetoast. Now i really don’t know why i visit here. Heck, at least on angle’s list people tell the truth – shills notwithstanding (as they do here).
AstralOil | 10 years and 11 months ago
Thanks for everyone’s support and insights. We’re still working on this, but following on the advice here plus some we’ve been staying cool, placing our formal complaints where they need to go, and very importantly – sent a formal ‘notice to cure’ along with a photograph of the work ‘as completed’ that the contractor was hereby discharged and that the photo represented their assertion that the contract was fulfilled. Having looked again at their work, and their tone in the previous texts and emails, they’re wavering and I’m hopeful they’ll settle and go away. Cate- “It’s a legal issue” isn’t an answer, that’s the grown-up version of your parents telling you babies come from storks – it’s too complicated we wouldn’t understand. I’d respectfully insist that you either publish the exact legal statute you’re claiming, or Brownstoner simply waives its liability from the forum (which is also perfectly legal) and lets it go free. It does seem suspicious that what’s allowed on the forum has changed – because there’s no doubt that there were threads about specific companies doing shoddy or criminal business. In other words: citation needed.
concord | 10 years and 11 months ago
Wow! Very disappointing that from now on I can’t rely on any recommenations (even after filtering the shills) since only favorable comments are allowed! Cate, have a real lawyer advice you – otherwise the forum’s usefullness will cease to exist. Obviously there is a balance between people just maliciously posting about other businesses (competition) and shills but…. OP, keep records, records, records, etc. a lien is not the end of the world – contactor still must prove the debt (after seeking to enforce the lien, etc) and there are consequences (serious) for them filing a willfully exageratted lien. There are also oegal and court fees to contractor. If you are not about to sell your property or refinance a lien filing is ‘nothing’ and even with mortgage you can ‘bond’ a lien…the issue is cost of legal fees unless the contract allows you to recover fees (but unlikely that you will recover even if you ‘win’…)
no-permits | 10 years and 11 months ago
and to the OP, don’t take their threats. they are as much on the hook as you are. tell them if they don’t finish the job to your satisfaction, you will sue them to have the entire job redone properly plus damages plus negative comments online.