Renovations without permits
I’ve been looking at lots of newly renovated 2 family homes in Bushwick and Bedstuy over the past year and it seems to be par for the course that these renos are done without permits. Granted the occupancy is not changing, but electric/plumbing is redone and new floor plans are implemented. These properties are selling and banks are financing them… How is this happening?
gpoint
in Building Code 13 years and 6 months ago
9
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9 replies
pigthree | 13 years and 6 months ago
dave, there are many things regarding rennovating that are legal in most of this country and not in NY. most code/laws are created and geared toward larger construction. that in mind, there is usually a union labor lobbiest somwhere influencing these regulations. unfortunately the competent home owner is the one who suffers.
bobjohn | 13 years and 6 months ago
Electric work without permit by unlicensed person? Just look what kind of people buy electric materials in home depot. There is even a big chart explaining what wire to use for 20A circuit. Do you think it is there for NEC obiding professionals?
greenmountain | 13 years and 6 months ago
Also, there are gaps in the systems of licensing and insurance which make it expensive and complicated to file jobs. I am interested in how our network of policies work against new home owners getting what they thought they paid for. Maybe you presumed reno’s were done by law-abiding “general contractors,” who hire qualified sub-contractors and licensed trades. Now you know “generalists” exist who do most or all of it themselves, often taking short cuts. In my business, I re-do a lot of expedient, cheap work by coop sponsors and house flippers for quick sale. It’s all over the city, not just Bushwick and Bed Sty, and I clean up the mess form the 1970’s going forward, not just the recent bubble. The DOB Licensing Unit “registers” GC’s (and encourages code compliance, safety, and workers comp coverage) but only for bigger jobs – whole buildings built or demolished and major additions. Renovations are “home improvements,” licensed by Consumer Affairs to protect clients from unethical contractors (no code compliance questions are on the test, but proof of workers comp is required). The rules focus on small jobs between a home owner and a craftsperson, for instance with progress payments of less than $15K. Renovating whole houses is too complex for the city-required HIC contract, yet beneath the requirements for a GC – not even regulated by the same agency. And of course, somebody who buys a house to fix it up cheap and sell it for as much as possible is practically unregulated. I used to get cold calls offering to lend me money for that. Liability insurance rates are way lower if a contractor does most of the work themselves, but then workers comp calls this “Carpentry not otherwise classified” and the rates are climbing fast. 3 years ago renovation contractors (if they followed state law) paid about 12% on top of payroll for comp. Next year it will be 20%, the same as for a multi-dwelling building from the ground up. So, Carpentry NOC means general contracting where the contractor does some of the work themself, even if wood is not a construction material. Comp rates for individual, interior renovation trades, like sheet rocking and installing cabinets, are going up, but keeping pace at about half the cost. To be a specialist, and pay the low percentage of payroll, you have to do only one trade and not subcontract any part of the job. You can’t be an installer of cabinets, who occasionally hires an electrician, for instance. The rules for workers comp seem to be for big jobs and GC’s, who are pure managers with enough money to keep many subcontractors busy all the time. It is twice as expensive for a small renovator to pay insurance, even if you want your home renovated so you can live in it. Those who pay the carpentry rate, compete against those who pay nothing. I think many of the houses you looked at were renovated to be sold, and the jobs were not filed because that would have required insured contractors, and insured contractors are randomly audited by the NYS Dept of Labor, occasionally by the IRS, and annually upon renewal by their workers comp carrier.
xistent | 13 years and 6 months ago
what happens when the neighbor complains and a compalint is opened? How long does it take for the inspector to come out? how hard is it to ignore them?
brownstoneshalfoff | 13 years and 6 months ago
“These properties are selling and banks are financing them… How is this happening?” Banks can’t even prove chain of assignment in their fraudclosure cases (’cause they shredded those implicating documents!). You want them to be bothered with code compliance. Ha! ***Bid half off peak comps***
rocketship | 13 years and 6 months ago
Make sure to check for open violations – even closed violations can give you a good history of what’s been done and what the relationship with the neighbours has been. The violation history can also give you a sense of the quality of work that was done – did the owner hire sloppy contractors who may have done more damage than good? Look up the property on www.oasisnyc.org – you can get access to all the city records available online there.
daveinbedstuy | 13 years and 6 months ago
You will have a problem with the mortgage company if the layout does not match the C of O. Most buildings don’t even have a c of O if built before 1938. Most buildings throughout Brooklyn have work done without permits, not just bed Stuy. Sure, it’s harder nowadays but that somewhat depends upon your neighbors.
rh | 13 years and 6 months ago
How is this happening? Because people in Bed Stuy aren’t so quick to call 311 on their neighbors. If the CofO didn’t change and it’s a nice reno done to code, there isn’t a problem.
daveinbedstuy | 13 years and 6 months ago
Most places in Brooklyn are done without permits. Unless an appraiser sees serious code violations, it won’t make a difference. It’s your job as a buyer to have it inspected to look for code violations…electric, plumbing, deck. Every single house I looked at with a deck had one that didn’t meet code.