How long to give contractors to submit bids for this project?
> Hey Jay Street maybe you should move over to easy street 🙂
I like that!
jaystreet
in About Brooklyn 10 years and 7 months ago
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17 replies
afrochic | 10 years and 7 months ago
Hi all, This week I’m having several contractors check out my place and submit bids for the following project in a 1000 sq ft triplex: 1) refinish and stain hardwood floors and stairs throughout apartment; 2) re-paint entire apartment (ceilings, walls, trim, doors, etc.); 3) replacing lighting fixtures; 3) some minor tiling work; 4) removing a sink and piping; 5) install new baseboards throughout. Not a major project but substantial nonetheless. How long do I give the contractors to submit their bids? I’m assuming bids should include 1) price break-down; 2) scope of work, including prep and clean up; 3) what is excluded in the bid; 4) start date; 5) completion date. Anything else I’m missing that should be provided in the bids? Thank you in advance!
greenmountain | 10 years and 7 months ago
Please direct your questions to the NYC Dept of Consumer Affairs, if you have not already done so. The “Consumer Bill of Rights” and “Sample Contract” are on their website, and they have a live chat. As a licensed Home Improvement Contractor, I wonder why they don’t level the economic playing field between us and the unlicensed contractors. I have asked directly. If all contractors were licensed, as required by law, perhaps you would not be asking here at all. I suggest your bids should all: display the contractor’s license number, valid phone number, physical business address, estimator’s name and position in the company. If you expect them to carry insurance and be legal employers, you can ask for a tax id number, if they carry a workers’ compensation policy. If they certify they are exempt from the NYS comp law, you can ask which of up to two owners of the company will be performing the work? Or, if the owners don’t labor, you can ask for the names, license numbers, etc. for the skilled crafts people/insured subcontractors who will do it. And, if you require all of them to have general commercial liability insurance, you can ask for the limits of their policies.
hawaiismurf | 10 years and 7 months ago
give them 7 days after site visit, they will still take 2 weeks. and the above suggestions are good.
daveinbedstuy | 10 years and 7 months ago
“Please direct your questions to the NYC Dept of Consumer Affairs” LOL Alternatively, your post here represents an inquiry into the real world.
resident2 | 10 years and 7 months ago
It depends on how you have requested the bids and how specific your plans and scope of work requirements are. if there are too many open questions it will take longer and you will not get apples to apples quotes. Whenever I am asking contractors to bid for a job I make sure to give them a complete plan and breakdown of what is being asked for; they all get the exact same scope & specs requirements so that when the bids come back, you are comparing apples to apples etc. I also give a time line that I would like and ask them for a time line that they feel they can reasonably work to considering their other commitments. The better your scope of work plan is the easier it is for them to get back to you with real numbers, in which case about a week. If your plan is not complete, then there will always be more questions back and forth and it could take 2-3 weeks to get a real quote. And then not apples to apples.
JPDA | 10 years and 7 months ago
As the Resident2 suggested, having drawings or a written scope of work is the best way to ensure that your bids are complete. Generally 2-3 weeks for a small residential project bid is pretty typical. Make sure you call and follow up with each of the GC’s and ask if they need additional information prior to submitting their bids. It isn’t uncommon for GC’s to include an “allowance” for items such as tile or plumbing fixtures that haven’t been explicitly spelled out in the scope. Ultimately you want to be able to make an apples-to-apples comparison of the bids, so even if each contractor only provides an allowance for certain items you should still be able to compare schedules, labor costs, etc.
bedstuyreno | 10 years and 7 months ago
I would actually look for a flooring expert to finish the harwood floors. From my experience general contractors aren’t the best at hardwood finishing. And there are people out there that only do floors- seek them out. Replacing light fixture- do you need new electrical or just installing lights fixtures? Installing light fixtures is actually very simple and any good handyman can get the job done. I even installed several of the lighting fixtures in my house myself. Since this is a small job, they should be able to get you an estimate in under a week. Be as detailed as possible in the scope of work. It’s better to take things off at the end than add the unexpected.
afrochic | 10 years and 7 months ago
Thanks everyone!!
Springs | 10 years and 7 months ago
the only “apples to apples” comparison is to ask what the contractor’s Time and Materials hourly rate is. Bids are engineered all kinds of ways to skin the cat and cut corners.
zag0r | 10 years and 7 months ago
If the concern is that all the contractors bid on identical scope of work, hourly rates don’t provide an “apples to apples” comparison at all. Hourly rates may tell you how experienced they are, how big the operation is, do they have an A rated insurance carrier, etc. Finally they could simply be lowballing and plan to make up for it with change orders which is likely if there is no proper documentation of the work or poor documentation or they don’t know how to read that documentation. Anyways, OP’s project is straight forward so no need to get carried away. Just ask for a sample of the baseboard if you are not specifying yourself. 2 weeks or more for GC bids depending on details. 1 week or more for sub-contractors depending on how busy they are.
jaystreet | 10 years and 7 months ago
This depends on the bidder’s [contractor’s] expertise and upfront due diligence. I always provide a breakdown by trade with specifications [if available] and alternates or allowances and often suggested specifications [if unavailable]. The numbers need to mean something tangible. I do this for myself as well as the consumer. Generally we sacrifice about 6 or 8 hours for our prospects. The turn around time is about a week to 10 days for the scope of **afrochic’s** project. If a bidder cannot turn this bid around quickly they either are not interested or can not do it. Move on. Start and end dates come in at the contract stage. A conversation about it is expected of course. **an excellent contractor / client approach is – we’re on the same team**
ekoflooringwoodwork | 10 years and 7 months ago
afrochic, The most of the answers was covered already. Also when refinishing wood floors ask what specifically their insurance covers and ask for the information. Some companies who do wood flooring do not have insurance that covers refinishing. So if anything happens insurance will not cover it.Lets say you do not like how the contractor refinish your floor, leaving sanding marks, or finish is peeling off, etc. If you have any questions regarding wood flooring I will be happy to answer and advise. I am Licensed by NWFA – National Wood Flooring Association in 3 categories: Inspector, Installer, Refinisher. I do install and refinish, wood floors and stairs, my prices are fair for the quality I provide. I also do contractors qualifications , testing on wood flooring concrete and subfloor to make sure wood can be installed. I ll be glad to serve you with my knowledge so you know more about the subject of floor install and refinishing. Have a wonderful weekend Tomasz Poznanski 347-628-3965
riva | 10 years and 7 months ago
Hi. Many contractors tend to waste the time of a serious consumer like yourself by showing up for the estimate and not following through on the proposal with scope and accurate pricing. Also I think many in the industry have forgotten how to show up on site and give an on the spot detailed, informative estimate with accurate pricing to match! With a job like “1) refinish and stain hardwood floors and stairs throughout apartment; 2) re-paint entire apartment (ceilings, walls, trim, doors, etc.); 3) replacing lighting fixtures; 3) some minor tiling work; 4) removing a sink and piping; 5) install new baseboards throughout” …you should have a straight answer from a licensed and insured contractor on paper on site, showing credentials and references as well as pictures, pricing and more. As for the type of contractor, general or specific trade…that should have no bearing on the quality of work…if the company is good they are good and in my opinion that comes from customer service, affordability and quality workmanship built to last! Find me here: http://brownstoner.staging.wpengine.com/hxaw
zag0r | 10 years and 7 months ago
“Also I think many in the industry have forgotten how to show up on site and give an on the spot detailed, informative estimate with accurate pricing to match!” Such a virtuoso of pricing should be a real boon to all serious consumers. They would certainly be the most fortunate contestant on The Price is Right!
riva | 10 years and 7 months ago
Thanks Zag Virtuoso of pricing, I will take it :)! and yeah I think same day on site pricing is definitely a benefit for many homeowners getting estimates. It speeds up the decision making process and shows confidence/experience in the contractor. So that coupled with a good education on whatever product that’s being estimated and your ahead of the game!
jaystreet | 10 years and 7 months ago
Buyer Beware! There are way to many variables to give an accurate detailed estimate “on the spot”. Sure it speeds up things. But the room for error and customer dissatisfaction is immeasurable. How could anyone give an accurate price for: **Demolition, Electrical, Plumbing, Carpentry, Millwork, Painting/Plaster, Stone/Tile, Hardware & Accessories, Lighting. Appliances, Glass/Glazing, Expediting, Architectural & Design fees?** These “on the spot” estimators carry too many business cards with their name on them. I’m thinking W C Fields Ultimately the losses need to come from change orders or another area of the project or by selling another project to pay for the one they under-priced. “Robbing Peter to pay Paul” is not an ethical business model.
riva | 10 years and 7 months ago
Hey Jay Street maybe you should move over to easy street 🙂 just kidding! But you must be taking it easy with 6-8 hours on a prospect and 10 days to get back to them? Seems a little over zealous for the scope: 1) refinish and stain hardwood floors and stairs throughout apartment; 2) re-paint entire apartment (ceilings, walls, trim, doors, etc.); 3) replacing lighting fixtures; 3) some minor tiling work; 4) removing a sink and piping; 5) install new baseboards throughout. In the words of the prospective client: Not a major project but substantial none the less. I have ONE business card and respectfully it doesn’t say anything about traveling salesman/ tin man, vacuums or used cars on it! Although I am familiar with the type being in the industry for years. Its frustrating to hear about these guys and their lack of ethic or knowledge in our industry as everyone thinks they can be a contractor!!! Yet it give guys like you and I an edge in that we are thorough and honest with detailed proposals and accurate pricing. Also, I have never robbed from “Peter to Pay Paul” its a horrible yet typical business model in the residential construction industry and usually if not always signifies the “bad habits” of a contractor. So kudos for insight and mentioning it, I come across alot of cynical buyers because of their past bad experience’s with crap contractors like you mention. I personally treat each job we do separately in terms of finance with established payment schedules from deposit to completion featuring dates and amounts to protect both client and company. Anyway in this case the same thing you do when your figuring the numbers out in your office or truck with your team etc.. is what I offered to do or would do on the spot at time of the estimate. Not always possible and strictly on a case to case basis. With Afrochics post I felt the confidence to offer that on the spot pricing angle given the proposed scope and her experience thus far on brownstoner waiting for contractors to get back to her. But that doesn’t mean that I think a contractor can always be Johnny on the spot! In my opinion, some of the factors determining whether one could price on spot or not are like you said: “This depends on the bidder’s [contractor’s] expertise and upfront due diligence” …aka you do your homework prior to an estimate based on past experience etc. Walk in prepared! For example it is possible to get your per square foot pricing on each trade established so when in a house your only a measurement away from expressing ballpark pricing on a lot of products. Rather than messing up calculations, price gauging and submitting change orders later on. Furthermore there are many factors that go into the decision to give a price on the spot or not. A contractor really has to clock the client, as its about them and their needs…are they a reader or a listener? How much time do you have for the estimate, 30 minutes is not enough in some cases like this one, to determine it could take two hours but I guarantee if the client has the time they will appreciate the same day effort! and on and on.. Regardless we all have our way of doing things and I am a firm believer in to each his own! So I agree with your business model of thoroughly estimated appointments as its what gets the good reputation for a contractor along with honesty, integrity, respect, quality workmanship and accurate pricing! But it can be done at times ON THE SPOT and at times it will take days or weeks depending on the project scope, timing, client…enough said, sorry to be winded but communication is the key to this business! Good luck out there!