Home Improvement Contractor Expired License Question
We HIC’s are required to be licensed for work on properties as defined by the DCA as 4 units or less, and when charging $200 or more. With money from us contractors, especially the majority who stay out of trouble, the DCA pays lawyers to represent home owners in disputes. Who pays to defend us in disputes with home owners? Again, we pay. We pay for both sides. Management Companies pay their own lawyers, architects and real estate professionals. You have to draw the line somewhere. I don’t think it would be fair for small contractors, often individual workers, to pay the legal fees of management agents, or large landlords. Already, I don’t think it is fair for me to pay to defend any size property owner in disputes with major corporations. Big box stores, regional franchisers and large specialized contractors already have their own lawyers, and are actively lobbying to eliminate consumer, labor and environmental protections. They are also required to be licensed HIC’s for their installation work. They can afford to fight the DCA as long as they want. I strongly suspect my fees are mostly going to represent small property owners in disputes with large contractors and major corporations. This should be the job of the NYS AG, or perhaps Federal Consumer Protection. Local city contractors should be working cooperatively with the City of NY to improve relationships with consumers, and decrease the likelihood of disputes in the first place. I think the current administration is capable of, and inclined towards, a less adversarial relationship between home owners and contractors, but the issues are poorly understood and not on anybody’s radar.
greenmountain
in About Brooklyn 10 years and 6 months ago
9
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9 replies
bklynj | 10 years and 6 months ago
So in my search for a person to repair my ceiling I made an appt. for someone to come to my apt. next week to get an estimate. I called 311 and found out that his license was not renewed. I now realize that I should’ve looked up the license before calling. Of course I am going to cancel the appt., but should I bring it to the person’s attention that they failed to renew their license?
resident2 | 10 years and 6 months ago
Yes, if they are a small one man show company just basically doing smaller jobs, he probably does not have an office staff and may not have noticed. The DCA is not like other agencies that send out renewal notices…. Oh actually come to think of it all the City agencies these days seem to be sending out violation notices for non renewal…. revenue entrapment. Without first a notice of renewal or expiration.
thetinkerswagon | 10 years and 6 months ago
a few thoughts here. first, it would be nice to let him know it expired. if he lets it sit too long they will make him report and go through the entire process and not only does it cost him more money, it is a hassle. that we have licenses does not guarantee a lot. it means we are bonded as they make us buy a completion bond. it means we are fingerprinted and had a security check run. what else? other then that, not much. if someone does not have a license and you withheld payment, they could not sue you as an unlicensed contractor in NYC could not bring a suit nor could they file a mechanic’s lien (and have it stick). and finally, he should know that it has run out as they do send out notices. Steve
bklynj | 10 years and 6 months ago
Thanks Steve for your advice. I will let him know, I just feel a little awkward doing so.
daveinbedstuy | 10 years and 6 months ago
How did you find him? If he came through good referrals and everything else seemed satisfactory to you, I’d use him, license or not.
bklynj | 10 years and 6 months ago
I’ve been searching the internet for drywall/sheetrock repair companies in Brooklyn and I don’t really remember exactly what site I found this particular company on. So no, he was not recommended to me by anyone.
greenmountain | 10 years and 6 months ago
The 2 year renewal cycle just happened. HIC’s have two more important things, which unlicensed ones should have, but sometimes don’t: Workers’ Compensation Insurance and Tax ID numbers. These are the expensive requirements, which could prevent someone from renewing or becoming licensed in the first place. “Comp,” like payroll taxes, is a percentage of payroll. Classified by trade, more or less risk of injury or death, most finish trades like plastering may cost about 10-12 % in addition to hourly pay rate. But, most HIC’s are only offered “5403 Carpentry NOC.” Not Otherwise Classified (NOC) could be any risky thing, say “Oil Derricks,” or “Concrete Distributing Towers.” It costs about 20%. I am not making this up. I got it straight from something called the “NY Compensation Insurance Ratings Board” (NYCIRB). HEY!!! WAKE UP!!! I didn’t intend to put you to sleep, just to point out the obstacles a good guy, especially a small employer might be going through to complete a renewal. There is bookkeeping, audits, perhaps hiring a CPA to straighten out a problem. Plastering a ceiling is fun, not this. Also, it is laced with injustice. The small artisan multi-skilled interior craft little guy, should not be subsidizing The New Construction Industry Industry through disproportionately high insurance rates. The idea is to protect consumers, but no city economic development agency is there to help us, and mostly, that’s right: “We don’t have office staff.” I agree with others, you should let him know it is important to you, and ask him what is going on. I am also really proud of consumers on this site who care about this and are willing to pay more for us to be licensed and insured and practice our trades ethically, on an economically level playing field. Competing against tax evaders and insurance fraudsters is all too common. Anyone interested in these issues? I would be glad to speak with you, as long as you understand it won’t be legal advice. You can find me in Find a Pro. -Green Mountain.
bklynj | 10 years and 6 months ago
Green Mountain, can you explain why a Home Improvement Contractor needs a license when doing work for an individual home/apt., but a managing agent of a building can hire a Contractor without a HIC license for renovations.
thetinkerswagon | 10 years and 6 months ago
bklynj: I will take a shot at this and say that the consumer laws are meant to protect consumers – not businesses (of which an agent is). I suspect that all too often contractors were competing against one another and they began offering deals that they could not deliver on just to get the job. the unwitting consumer – especially those who had not been through renos before – bought the promises sold to them by contractors and when the contractors could not finish jobs within promised dollar amts, they asked for more money or disappeared. the likelyhood of this happening in the commercial environment is less likely to occur because of the experience of the players – and whose money is being spent. for example, when I bought my bosses some quotes for a job we wanted to get done, they immediately looked at them and said “no” to the lowest two as they felt they may either not do a good job or not may not complete it. Now, the project I am thinking about ended up being 50k. the lowest proposal that I had put forth was $28,000\. in a consumer environment, far too many homeowners would jump on that 28,000 one without understanding that that was not the one they should have taken. on another note, I remember one of my bosses signing a higher priced contract and saying “what do I care, it is not my money”. The temptation to take the lowest bid in spite of risks is less at play when it is someone else’s money. The HIC Laws put a good bit of the onus on the contractor to spell out how much something is going to cost and what will be delivered and when money can be spent along the way. A lot of Brooklyn homeowners have done enough work on their houses to know what a lot of this stuff costs. I would say most of them don’t have to worry if the contractor is licensed because they can read the promises and look at the dollar amount and are smart enough to know if they get three quotes and one is 40% lower than the other two, something is very wrong with the lower one. But there are people who shop jobs to death and shop and shop and shop and they keep digging looking for that super low ball; those are the people who the HIC laws are designed to protect because those individuals are shopping for trouble. and then again, there are just plain crooked contractors whose business plan is to take money and walk. In a commercial environment, those kinds of people would not get through the first phone call. just my thoughts. Steve