A Failed Search: A Coop Pied a Terre in Brooklyn
What seemed like a good idea – a two bedroom coop in Brooklyn that would be a weekend place for the next five years, a year round residence thereafter, is now but a failed exercise that has left us $1000 poorer, but a good deal wiser. Two years of open houses, multiple failed bids (10%…
What seemed like a good idea – a two bedroom coop in Brooklyn that would be a weekend place for the next five years, a year round residence thereafter, is now but a failed exercise that has left us $1000 poorer, but a good deal wiser. Two years of open houses, multiple failed bids (10% off asking with an all cash offer), misinformation, and miscommunication ended suddenly when our successful bid made directly to the owner was left unconsummated. The coop board, who accepted pied a terres on a case by case basis, felt this would not be a case. When I asked the board president, what was it about our case that was troubling, the answer was nothing. We have never accepted a pied a terre, and you were not going to be the first. When I asked if they had been misleading, the answer was no – we review all such requests, and reject all of them. Fortunately, our denial was based on an introductory letter that we had written. This spared us the $1350 in fees, as well as an exacting and total examination of our finances in which our privacy was never guaranteed. Top all that off with a management company whose customer service style would have been more appropriate to selling soup in Manhattan. Ultimately, we learned a lot. Coops are bizarre and arcane real estate instruments that we want nothing to do with. We had received all pertinent documents from our attorney: board minutes that would indicate a narrow minded leadership by individuals not qualified to put together a grocery list. House rules, renovation regulations, inflated mortgages, assessments, and fees upon fees. I am so grateful that the board, in their own misguided way, set us straight and relieved us of this irrational desire to own a second home. And as much as I hate to say it, a buyers broker would have been very helpful in this matter. There is no way they would have allowed six months to be wasted in a deal that had little or no chance to be closed. A commission is to important to waste on such foolishness.
You should buy a house in the burbs. I heard people never ever have problems with their neighbors there. 🙂
Oh yes, the fees in condos is where a lot of the budget can come from. It is a revenue generator to keep the maintenance down for owners. However, they just can’t turn down buyers for no reason whatsoever, because they don’t like how they look or the spelling of their last name.
I get why people complain about co-ops. But don’t condos have boards too? Wouldn’t they have periodic assessments or move-in deposits or renovation guidelines too?
It can be frustrating. You should avoid any more co-ops unless they are through a well-respected broker who has handled that co-ops board before, as brokers are about the only ones with the patience and the experience to navigate their peccadillos.
OTOH, for $660K there are a couple of condos in FSB’s (or at least partially serviced buildings that would serve your needs.
A few answers/responses: I do not wish to name names, etc – not trying to be vindictive. We clearly know the differences between coops and condos. We never looked at a coop that would not allow or consider pied a terres. There was nothing in the house rules, board minutes (the minutes, if you want to call them that were limited and not very helpful), etc. that clearly stated that pied a terres were not allowed. We were told by the seller, that the board president had stated that all applications were reviewed on a case by case basis. As for financial information, we knew that we would be asked about all of our investments, liabilities, etc. A total of four references seemd a bit much. Fees in excess 0f $1300, as well. What was troubling was that no one would / could guarantee our privacy. So, I sent an introductory letter to the board, and if they felt we were “application worthy” we would have moved on. So, we were far from being ignorant. Our attorney was on top of everything. Bottom line, case by case was a fallacy. And, the reason why pied a terres are not allowed? The board president said that they wanted everyone in the building to be there full timeand share the responsibilities. (Taking out the garbage, sweeping the floor?) I felt that paying the maintenance on time, being a good neighbor and following all the rules would suffice. Anyway, I am grateful – the $1700 a month maintenance will cover a couple hotel stays and theater tickets. The $660,000 sitting in the bank isn’t so bad either.
No sympathy at all on this one. You had no idea how coop boards work? No idea that most won’t allow pied-a-terres? No idea that your finances would be scrutinized? And sorry to hear you feel that renovation rules shouldn’t exist, or house rules, or assessments when required.
Most coop boards actually believe that a building should reflect its organizational name–cooperative. That means that shareholders should ‘cooperate’, they should all live there, and have some stake in the success of the building. Coop boards
This was really simple… you should have known the difference btw a coop and a condo before you went looking, and chosen the latter.
Part of me says that if the board had a policy against pied a terres, the seller should have known about it and passed it along. The other part says it was probably in the house rules or lease (@5:28). Sounds like your atty was even less knowledgeable about coops than you.
And you’re lucky the board president even talked to you.
I learned some things I did not realize when our family sold a deceased relative’s coop in Manhattan a few years ago in the midst of the coop board’s elections. There were many things on the agenda during our completely clear cut situation, and it was clear that using common sense with our transaction wasn’t on the list at all, though ego parades and charades topped it. It reminded me of a Rabbi friend of mine describing his Temple’s Board, that they simply used that time to be what they wished they could be in their actual lives and jobs, mostly throwing their weight around at completely inappropriate times, because that was the goal, not to lead that which elected them. Anyway, the board I had to deal was completely insane, and had we not had brokers dealing with them the apartment would still be vacant (but with us paying the maintenance) these years later.
Maybe when I’m much older, and have a gun held to my head, I’ll end up in a big Coop, but not until then.
sjtmd, hope it works out that you find some place to be the Pied a Terre you’re looking for : )
Had not read all the way to your last sentence when I posted that. Sorry for the repetition, and obviously I agree.
I think both this post and the previous one argue for having a good broker (and hoping there is a competent / honest seller’s broker on the other side). Doesn’t cost anything as a buyer.
And no, I am not a broker.