Oil to Gas Conversion: Questions
I hope answers to these questions, from Master Plumber and others on this forum, could guide us and anyone else considering an oil to gas conversion. We’re looking at such a conversion this spring for the steam-heat system in our 1914 attached, single-family brick house . 1) How does a plumber determine the size of…
I hope answers to these questions, from Master Plumber and others on this forum, could guide us and anyone else considering an oil to gas conversion.
We’re looking at such a conversion this spring for the steam-heat system in our 1914 attached, single-family brick house .
1) How does a plumber determine the size of the gas furnace needed? What should I expect them to check during a visit to provide an estimate?
2) How does a plumber determine if a chimney liner is needed with a new furnace? If a new liner is needed, should the property owner first contract with a chimney specialist to have this work done?
3) Since the conversion will likely requirement some movement of asbestos covered pipes connected to the existing boiler, should a property owner first contract with an asbestos-abatement specialist to remove the pipe wrapping, before working with a heating contractor?
4) Can the plumbing contractor also remove the un-needed oil tank? Or, again, should an owner contact a separate company for this work after the oil line is disconnected.
5) Should a plumbing contractor be responsible for any necessary permits and/or contact with Keyspan aka National Grid?
6) In this house, the existing oil burner is partially enclosed in a closet constructed of wood-frame and gypsum board. The front of this closet is fully opened, allowing the face plate of the oil burner to be removed for cleaning and maintenance. Am I correct that such an enclosure now violates the NYC building code? Does the owner need to remove this enclosure before contracting with a plumber?
7) How can an oil furnace be enclosed in a basement that may be used in the future as a living area? Does the furnace require specific clearances on ALL sides either for maintenance access and/or building code requirements? Are removable metal screens (such as larger version of radiator covers) an option to enclose the furnace?
Thanks in advance for your replies.
Hi, new here..
They sell gas burners that just replaces the oil burner.. I know it not the most efficient but an easy conversion, same plumbing same boiler.. Do you have to do anything with relining the chimney in this case..
I am also looking to do an oil to gas conversion in a 2 Family brownstone house in Bensonhurst. I called a couple of local plumbers and got quotes around the $10K range (removal of oil tank, installation new gas and water broiler). We are also thinking about putting separate meters for each floor so renters can pay for their own gas. The quote for that procedure is $5K, is that normal?
Crownheightshood, OP here. You’ve raised an interesting question. Are there good reasons (financial or otherwise) to *stay* with oil nowadays? Since this thread is now three-plus weeks and 25 comments old, I wonder if you might get more replies by raising this topic in a new thread. This thread is three-plus weeks and two-dozen plus posts old
May I take this discussion of oil-to-gas conversion back a step?
I own a one-family attached brick house, circa 1910.
The oil furnace was relatively new when we bought the house in ’97. I was advised at that time (by a plumber) not to spend the extra $ to convert. Oil was cheaper than gas, etc….
We haven’t had heating problems. But the price of oil has gone up and recently we had a smoking/sooty problem that has me thinking again of possibly converting to gas. I consulted a plumber — same guy as before — and he still advises against it. Reasons: Something about better BTU with oil (vs gas); pressure from the street into homes is poor because so many homes have gas, so the furnace is “on” all the time, but the warmth isn’t there…
I don’t know what this plumber’s angle is … maybe doesn’t want to be the last kid on the block using oil?!… but I’M thinking – Hey, should I just sit tight longer and see if, in a few years, maybe ..solar panels?! or something…won’t be the way to go? I mean, if I’m spending so much $ to convert, let’s convert to something that really will pay off.
So, my question is: What are the arguments FOR/AGAINST conversion? Obviously, up-front costs of conversion are in the AGAINST column. Back-end savings are in the FOR column. What else? Did this plumber have any good points, about the quality of the heat/ gas pressure / etc?
I really appreciate the help MP and others provide here…. May you all be blessed with trouble-free, affordable, sustainable warmth!
Outstanding post, Smokychimp.
I’ve never had a clearer explanation of these points.
Smokychimp
Thanks for contributing to a thread that I hope will be helpful for many forum users looking at a conversion. This is very valuable information
In my case, this conversion is for a single-family house. So I realize the enclosure code may not be as strict.
However, I am dealing with the following spatial puzzle and I would welcome architectural input.
The footprint of this property includes a primary section that 17 feet wide by 38 feet deep. A secondary kitchen extension is 9 feet wide by 19 feet deep.
The chimney stack is on the left side of a passageway from the main section of the basement to the extension, so that dictates where the boiler must go. (It is currently in the larger section of the basement, immediately next to the stack).
A half-bath is on the right side of the passageway and an existing waste line and shower drain (no sink) dictate the location of that bath.
Unfortunately, the juxtaposition of the chimney stack and the bath lines creates a bit of a bottleneck in that section of the basement.
So while I would like to create a visual enclosure for the boiler for aesthetic reasons, I don’t much clearance to do so.
That’s why I raised the idea above of using some sort of ceiling to floor metal panels (similar to those found on radiator covers) These would be removable to service the boiler. And allow sufficient air flow, of course.
Have you ever seen such an enclosure? Or have an opinion on whether it would work?
Or another solution to the same issues of small clearance enclosure?
To add a point to Master Plumber’s excellent explanation above, I’d like to add a bit more regarding the architectural requirements for the enclosure room.
First of all, there is a breakdown between single family homes and multi-tenant dwellings. In the case of a single family home, a rated enclosure is not required (or wasn’t prior to 2008 I don’t know if the new code changed this).
So assuming you’ve got a multi-family building mechanical room, there is the question of when the building is built. If the building construction or entire boiler room is new, it must follow all aspects of the newly adopted code. If the boiler room existed prior to 1968, only aspects of it that are being modified would be required to be upgraded to current code. It’s important to consider that codes are safety MINIMUMS, so that it’s probably a better idea to upgrade to current safety standards anyway if possible.
Most inspectors would be looking for three at least different things on a mechanical room enclosure:
1. The door assembly would be fire proof and self-closing, with a UL fire rating of 1.5 hours (called a type “B” door and frame). I’m using the word assembly rather than just door since it means door, frame, and how the whole thing’s attached to the wall. You can’t place a rated door into a non-rated frame for compliance.
2. The assembly of the walls and ceiling would be 2 hour fire rated if the room is built post 1968. The integrity of the rated assembly would need to be certified by an engineer or architect. There are occasional posts on this forum saying things like fire rating equals a certain amount of sheetrock, like one layer of board, etc., which is not correct. Fire rating is determined by every component of the partition’s assembly, materials of both sides of the wall or ceiling, taping methods, and stopping around any penetrations from things like pipes or conduits.
3. The fresh air intake would be appropriately sized and have a fire damper.
If the boiler room is old code (pre 1968), it is built prior to modern fire ratings, so the material standards of the enclosure are proscribed by a chapter in the 1916 code. This code is in some respects a bit more flexible and includes things like sheet metal enclosures. It is still up to an inspector’s discretion to require that the room be brought to contemporary standards.
If an inspector is being a real stickler for some reason, then clearances and dimensions around the equipment come into play. The next circle of Hell would be compliance with MEA numbers for all installed components. This rarely comes up though.
I know that this is all a bit confusing but want to stress that there is no single answer for enclosure requirements. It is a mixture of overlapping codes, based on when the room was built, and requirements that are complex enough that the people who enforce them don’t always fully know them.
Christophe, you claimed in another post to have “10 plumbers” quote you on your boiler replacement job.
I suspect you haven’t had it done yet because I see no permit in the system for your address. Either that or your plumber just didn’t follow through with his responsibility to file.
Your building required a 12-section boiler. That’s much bigger than most boilers we see in a residential building. The price I quoted you was more like $11,000, which is what the job was worth if you wanted it done well, with options for commercial and high-efficiency water heaters that certainly do cost more than standard equipment.
If I remember correctly, you were looking to gain efficiency with your new equipment. These were simply options. You were in no way obligated.
Now that you’ve posted this misleading claim three times, in two different threads, can we leave it that you got other prices more in line with your budget and stop what looks like a personal vendetta against my company?
I don’t have a dime of your money and never will.
Move on.
FYI, we converted from oil to gas in November, one pipe steam system, for $7500, $2000 or so of which was for an indirect (ultra stor) hot water system. It included removal and disposal of the two oil tanks in the basement. The boiler is a Burnham Independence, reg efficiency (82-84%).