Yards Scale-Back: Token or Meaningful Move?
Big news on Atlantic Yards on Friday. First, Ratner announced that he was axing 440 market-rate condominiums for a total of 475,000 square feet. According to James P. Stuckey, the new plan “allows for more open space, narrows the scale of the buildings and reduces overall bulk and density, but it also gives us the…
Big news on Atlantic Yards on Friday. First, Ratner announced that he was axing 440 market-rate condominiums for a total of 475,000 square feet. According to James P. Stuckey, the new plan “allows for more open space, narrows the scale of the buildings and reduces overall bulk and density, but it also gives us the flexibility to maintain our commitment to affordable housing.” While the overall number of floors would shrink, some buildings would be even taller than originally planned. (Hmmmm.) Separately, the Empire State Development Corporation said it would expand the main geographic area under study and increase the number of intersections where the traffic impact will be examined. Marty says he’s “delighted” by the changes but not so Dan Goldstein: “The whole thing is still bigger than it was when it was announced.”
Arena Complex Shrink by 5% [NY Times]
Final Scope Document [DDDB]
Brooklyn the new Manhattan? I hope not! Does that make Manhattan the new Brooklyn? How on earth does “Brooklyn pride” equate with wanting to make Brooklyn a copy of something else?
And once you get beyond the demographic mentioned by Anon 8:29 above, knowledge of what’s involved in Ratnerville is scarce, hence the support.
And, yes, in order to follow your prediction: I live in PLG, I strongly oppose Ratner’s project, and I am educating my neighbors to do the same thing — once they learn the truth about the “affordable housing” probably not being on-site, the real make-up and financing of BUILD, and the fact that most jobs to be created here are for the duration of the construction only, they realize that basketball is only a diversionary tactic here.
Finally, how does the fact that Ratner has more money than anyone else make him right?
And the earlier comments about a “glossier” lifestyle really made me laugh — does that gloss come from the sheen of exhaust fumes, or sewage backed up into surrounding basements, or beer sloshed by drunken, rowdy, (most likely) suburban basketball fans?
Picture MSG surrounded by characterless apartment/office towers — there’s Ratnerville. I avoid that area of Manhattan already; why would I want a replica built near my home (or anywhere else in the world for that matter)?
Puckish,
Most arena opponents are white yuppies residing in Park Slope, Fort Greene, Prospect Heights, etc. (Prediction: someone will post saying, “I live in [neighborhood not mentioned above] and I oppose the arena”). Once you get beyond that demographic, which is a tiny percentage of Brooklyn, support for the arena is strong. Trust me, once that arena is built, they will have absolutely no problem filling the seats (prediction: someone will post saying that Ratner will give away tickets in order to conceal low sales). Basically, I agree with David and the others. This thing is a done deal. Ratner has more money and influence than all of the opponents combined – more than any flea market or sing-a-long could raise in a thousand lifetimes. Plus, Sheldon Silver has indicated his support for the project. The opponents have lost every major battle thus far, and there’s no reason to believe that they’ll prevail in court.
I’m just being honest. The truth of the matter is that the majority of Brooklynites are in the belief that most of the development slated for the borough is in our best long term interest, e.g., (1)
Brooklyn Bridge Park; (2) Downtown Brooklyn Development Plan; (3) BAM Culture District; (4) Atlantic Terminal; and (5) Atlantic Yards. Brooklyn is a first class CITY and is well on its way to becoming the new Manhattan, whether you like it or not. We welcome the Nets with open arms. And if you took a poll I think you would discover that we wouldn’t mind having the Jets, Mets and Islanders too!! When the rest of these teams bear witness to what a Brooklyn franchise can do to resurrect their fortunes, it’s going to be a matter of time before Brooklyn becomes a four team sport borough, e.g., basketball, football, baseball and hockey. For all of you newcomers, there’s something called BROOKLYN PRIDE and it rules above everything else. The anti-development crew has failed because they can not comprehend this simple basic concept which is the primary reason why their foolish arguments have fallen upon deaf ears…..
Brown Bomber- which Brooklyn is that? The one on Planet Mars? The majority of Brooklyn could care less about the Nets. THey are far more interested in housing, decent public transportation and jobs. The reason the arena is the centerpiece is because Ratner wanted his own team. He hardly cares about whether the borough wanted it or not. So just who is living in a fantasy world here? At least you didn’t insult us by serving up your concern for housing Brooklynites.
David, you’re so on point. I couldn’t agree with you any more. The rest of you guys are living in a fantasy world.
Your arguments againsts the AY project are transparent and laughable.
CHP, the reason why AY will get built and why the Nets arena is such critical component of the development project is because that’s what the borough wants. Brooklyn wants the Nets. End of story. For those of us who are major sport fans and Brooklyn zealots, we want the Nets, we want the arena and WE WANT IT IN DOWNTOWN BROOKLYN!!
Supreme Court decisions are always open to interpretation and if you look at history, you’ll see how laws have reinterpreted. The original intent of eminent domain was to compensate property owners for the government taking their land for projects deemed in the public good. Over time the definition of “public good” has been stretched and stretched. For the AY project the public good is now an arena for a second rate basketball team (and why should an arena be a centerpiece anyway?) and luxury housing- that’s a specific market. The moderate income housing he claims he will build was simply to allleviate pressure from community groups and were not part of his original plan. If we really are worrying about over a million new people, how many of those do you actually think will be “luxury” income? Not the majority. And if we really care about what happens to the city in the long run, why is our infrastructure falling apart or being cut back? How many subway stations have been upgraded compared to Manhattan? If you told me Ratner would have to pay for those upgrades and extra trains and buses I’d give the place my blessing (sorta maybe). But no one is holding him responsible for the extra pressures put on a low density area by an enormous hi-density project. The truth is he wouldn’t dream of contributing to upgrading infrastructure- he thinks his project will force the local government to do it on tax dollars because the AY project makes it a necessity. Ecologically sound principles say to design what the area can reasonably bear- in every facet and over time. I don’t see how something so huge will do that.
Actualy Puck the definition I gave you is the one in the constitution AND repeatedly upheld by the Supreme Court (athough I am sure that will not satisfy you).
As for the rest, before you “laugh” at my analysis we are waiting to hear you “enviromentally appropriate” solution for dealing with the 1M new residents expected in our city over the next 20 years AND the enviromentally appropriate location for arenas and other large venues.
Eminent Domain (which so far has not even been used) does not “steal” anyone’s home; it provides complete due process to ensure that the property owner is given fair compensation.- wow David. How much did Ratner pay you to shill for him? I don’t think there’s been such good technique since PT Barnum shilled for the Fiji Mermaid. Of course he also said there’s one born every minute and that ought to be on Ratner’s business card.
In case you don’t understand it, eminent domain for the purposes of taking one person’s property to give to another (not for public works) still constitutes theft in my book. And in fact you cannot call it a fair process because you are forcing someone to give up their property to someone with more money and cronies. Take out the word fair.If the legality of owning property is now based on the premise of “until a rich developer comes along” then frankly you’ve effectively handed the country over to the wolves.(By the way, your environmental analysis still has me laughing.)
“So instead divert Fire, NYPD, Sanitation etc… to an unpopulated area where they are ordinarily unneeded?? – Thanks for proving my point” er…really? You made a point? No one said divert it elswhere. What I am pointing out is the increased burdens on these services which will drastically reduce reduce their ability to get somewhere quickly. It’s already happening and is a major issue in this day and age. And our mayor has been reducing firehouses since he got into office.
And once again- answer the question please- if it were your house on the block, what would you be doing? Yeah- I thought so. I have a bridge I can sell you and this way to the egress.
jps- building big just to build big is no answer. And again- the organization is called DEVELOPE- don’t destroy. It isn’t about not building- it’s about building responsibly and in an ecologically sound manner. For everyone’s quality of life and safety. Yes people are coming to Brooklyn- how about making sure they and us have a place worth living in?
Driver, very few people are “completely totally wrong” about most things on this forum. Even at my most contentious, I would never say that the people I disagree with are totally wrong. However, if you want to play that way, so be it.
I looked at your study. It’s very interesting. However, it mostly deals with the traffic patterns in European cities, with only a few examples given of US drivers. With all due respect to the Europeans here, our driving habits and theirs are very different. There are fewer cars in Europe. Most of the European cities cited have better mass transit options than we do, more people on average walk or bike, or motorbike in Europe than they do here, and more people who actually live within most of the European cities cited have a shorter commute within cities and municipalities that are themselves, much smaller in size than greater New York City. So for the most part, you are comparing apples and oranges.
You may note that I used words like “most,and “more”, not “all” and “every”, because there are, of course, no absolutes in any of this, just as I am not “totally wrong”.
Of course, if people know a road is closed or blocked for whatever reason, they go around or in a different direction. Thanks to Shadow Traffic and other such indicators, we can be forewarned. The point is that at AY there is no “around”. As others said, the finite number of streets and ways to bypass Atlantic Ave are few, and all of the other streets are going to be gridlocked and people will be crawling, including those taking buses, or carpooling. Because AY is not on an off ramp on some highway, there is no choice. If you have to drive, and that also includes the massive numbers of trucks and other commercial vehicles that use those roads, you are going to be involved in endless gridlock. If X Street is closed, of course the number of people using X St. is less. One stat on this study that was actually in NYC showed that the traffic on a street being repaired in Manhattan went down from something like 681 vehicles in a given time down to 650. Big whoop. I bet the absence of those 30 cars really moved traffic along.
The end result of this study, which was done in 2002, when there were even less cars in the US than now, is that notification and plans to redirect traffic helped the mostly European traffic managers to lessen traffic. Of course, and I grant that would lessen gridlock here as well. But unless the planners of AY have plans for this, and I have not seen or heard tell of any, outside of “take public transportation”, Atlantic Ave, and ALL of the surrounding streets are going to look more like the rolling parking lot that is usually the BQE.
By the way, I don’t own a car, and if I did, would still take the subway to work. That doesn’t mean I’m not aware of what goes on on the street.