Yards Scale-Back: Token or Meaningful Move?
Big news on Atlantic Yards on Friday. First, Ratner announced that he was axing 440 market-rate condominiums for a total of 475,000 square feet. According to James P. Stuckey, the new plan “allows for more open space, narrows the scale of the buildings and reduces overall bulk and density, but it also gives us the…
Big news on Atlantic Yards on Friday. First, Ratner announced that he was axing 440 market-rate condominiums for a total of 475,000 square feet. According to James P. Stuckey, the new plan “allows for more open space, narrows the scale of the buildings and reduces overall bulk and density, but it also gives us the flexibility to maintain our commitment to affordable housing.” While the overall number of floors would shrink, some buildings would be even taller than originally planned. (Hmmmm.) Separately, the Empire State Development Corporation said it would expand the main geographic area under study and increase the number of intersections where the traffic impact will be examined. Marty says he’s “delighted” by the changes but not so Dan Goldstein: “The whole thing is still bigger than it was when it was announced.”
Arena Complex Shrink by 5% [NY Times]
Final Scope Document [DDDB]
Absolutely not, Brownbomber, that’s exactly the problem, and that’s exactly why many people support Ratnerville — they couldn’t care less if the entire area is ruined as long as they can walk to their season seats for the Nets.
Too bad for them (and thank goodness for the rest of us) most people don’t feel that way.
Babs, is it too harsh to say that some folks don’t really care about affordable housing, jobs, eminent domain, pollution, traffic congestion, etc and simply want a sport franchise in Brooklyn at this exact location by any means necessary?
Babs – once again you distinguish yourself with your ignorance and stupidity.
And to whom will those construction jobs go? Existing construction company employees and union members who will be available — including workers who will be coming in from other parts of the city and from outside. It’s not like any effort is going to be made to recruit the inexperienced or unemployed from Brooklyn.
I agree — construction is an important industry in this city, but how many of those (legally) employed in it actually live here?
And construction of anything on this site will provide construction jobs, so once you know the true scope and intent of Ratnerville, the argument in fsvor of it as providing jobs is lost once another development is compared to it because they become equivalent.
babs and others–
Let’s assume you’re right and the jobs created by the project are only temporary construction jobs. (I don’t think either side has a reliable crystal ball for job creation.)
How long will the build be going on? How much money will it drive to construction companies and their employees? Are they just going to bury that money in the ground? Or is it possible that it might in some way go to help grow these businesses?
If you define it this way, all construction jobs are temporary. That doesn’t mean construction is not an important industry for blue-collar workers in this city.
I would never underestimate the potential of AY opponents to derail the project – NYC/NYS has so many avenues for obstruction that opponents have at least a 50/50 chance to stop it.
That being said what I find most upsetting about opponents (here and everywhere else) is that they never admit that their position is simply NIMBY.
NO ONE can deny that NYC and Brooklyn needs more housing; and NO ONE can deny that people want entertainment like Basketball, Concerts, Circus etc… that require large venues and yet AY opponents can not offer any solution to these undeniable facts that isnt simply a plan to move these things away from THEIR home (b/c people are still going to need a place to live and people will still go to arenas, stadiums etc…).
And when in the very rare case an AY opponent does suggest alternative sites for this neccessary development, the NIMBISM becomes clear b/c the alternative inevitably will result in more enviromental problems, higher costs, and more traffic.
And I never said that anyone who supports the project must be stupid or uninformed — just that there’s not a lot of knowledge about the project out there, due mostly to the propaganda effort spearheaded by FRC and BUILD.
And, as mentioned elsewhere, at least one other proposal was submitted that would give the MTA more money than Ratner. As someone else quibbled, it didn’t come with the “centerpiece” sports arena — how is something that takes up less than 10% of the project’s total surface area a centerpiece?
And how exactly does Ratner’s proposal “work?” Who is going to buy these “luxury” residential units? What luxury apartment buyer wants to live in a multi-building complex next to a basketball arena?
Also, as a real estate agent, I’d expect a drop in existing property values as a result of construction of Ratnerville as it currently stands — especially in Fort Greene. The potential of going from a beautiful, quiet, historic enclave to the edge of a suburban-style arena/office park/residential tower complex, with the resulting spillover of noise, traffic, drunken sports fans, and the overloaded infrastructure, would certainly make me think twice about buying there already.
Too bad about the Williamsburgh Savings Bank condo conversion.
“And once you get beyond the demographic mentioned by Anon 8:29 above, knowledge of what’s involved in Ratnerville is scarce, hence the support.”
Therein lies the main flaw of the AY opponents: they assume that anyone who supports the project is either stupid or uninformed, and that once these supporters are “educated”, they will see the light and agree with opponents, who must be right, because, well, they’re always right. Such arrogance does little to win converts, but in the end, opponents seem more concerned with being correct than with persuasion tactics.
“Finally, how does the fact that Ratner has more money than anyone else make him right?”
I never said that it made him right, but it makes him far more effective than the opponents will ever be. Again, it’s not about who’s right, it’s about what works.