Ward's Bakery: The Calm Before the Storm
There were more protesters and members of the media than construction workers on site this morning at Ward’s Bakery. The Hagan sisters were there with their signs and Norman Oder with his camera. Meanwhile, the only instrument of destruction onsite was this Keyspan backhoe. Bulldozers for Ward’s Bakery [Brownstoner]
There were more protesters and members of the media than construction workers on site this morning at Ward’s Bakery. The Hagan sisters were there with their signs and Norman Oder with his camera. Meanwhile, the only instrument of destruction onsite was this Keyspan backhoe.
Bulldozers for Ward’s Bakery [Brownstoner]
Michael G – Your metric is meaningless. How large a tract are you comparing – just the 22 acres of AY? That doesnt define a census tract – which is what I think (your not clear) that you are comparing it to. Further, who cares if it is the densest in the US – 95% of the US is suburban and has a density that is literally destroying our enviroment. The question remains how much density is too much – some place has to be the ‘densest’ – that doesnt mean it is bad.
SPer- I AM concerned about the transportation system; I agree that little to no garages should be built; I support congestion pricing for Manhattan ; (BTWI do not support residential permits b/c they increase car ownership) – However I am also a realist – NYC (as with virtually all municipalities) do not ‘build for the future’. They build for need. There is too much competition for tax dollars and politicians are too beholden to the short term interest. This is the problem with the low density suburbs. Even though the density is low by eventually congestion and traffic destroy transportation, however the density makes mass transit impossible both physically and from an economies of scale point of view (ever been to Atlanta??)
But as I said in my 1st post – the problem with AY-opposition is that it is a “sky is falling”, “AY supporters are idiots and paid shills” type of thing – instead of really engaging in the BENEFITS as well as the negatives of AY and trying to come up with a reasonable balance.
Oh, and by the way, in further response to Anon at 3:15, the 421(a) tax abatements run amok have absolutely been deleterious to the City. I’m sure you didn’t bring these abatements up in order to defend them, did you?
I never said Ratner was a “loser” for leveraging public dollars for his private benefit. I simply said that the process was corrupt since other potential buyers, who might also have leveraged public dollars, were excluded from the process. I am pointing out that the public loses when there is no competitive bidding. Do you really disagree with this?
I fully understand that public financing is sometimes desirable in development projects. I am simply asserting that the public could have gotten a better deal in terms of public benefits in exchange for its considerable investment were there a prior planning process followed by competitive bidding.
Your comparison of the sweetheart deal given to Ratner to mortgages and educational loans is so patently ridiculous that I can only imagine you were blushing as you typed it up.
SPer is a dope! Do you really expect Ratner to pay cash from his PA to finance the $5 billion it will take to build AY? You are such a retard. Ratner is a businessman and he, like any corporation, foundation, endowment or individual, relies on the public and private markets for financing. Ever heard of the concept of leverage and how it’s used to generate higher than normal returns and to free up additional capital for other investment opportunities? If Ratner is a loser for simply utilizing our financial system to run and operate a very successful real estate concern then I guess everyone is a loser too. I don’t know about you but I financed my house, car and education. Perhaps people like you do it differently, Mr. Deep Pockets. LOL!
For example, SPer did you purchase your home in cash or did you go begging on hands and knees into your local bank seeking a home mortgage loan? Did your purchase rely on any 421(a) or J12 abatements? Did you participate in a first time home buyer program through a governmental or non-for-profit agency? Did you get any special rate, loan consideration or other incentive because said home existed in an economically depressed area? Though I doubt that this applies to you, how did you finance your college education?
I could go on and on but you’re probably too stupid to follow rational thought. I’ll leave the forthcoming bashing to someone else.
Too dense means twice as dense as anywhere else in the united states of america- that’s the metric based on census measurments. If the number of people expected moves into project acerage- it will literally be twice as dense as the next densest census tract in America (which is currently a housing project in Harlem).
David,
I work in a neighborhood that is virtually depopulated (northern Bed-Stuy). How does blowing the entire wad of affordable housing tax incentives on AY help rebuild this community? How does AY increase density in areas that actually NEED increased density to return to being viable urban communities?
Are there any limits to your pro-density argument? Do you support building a high rise tower on every block where there’s a vacant lot, regardless of what surrounds it? How about the infrastructure capacity of the AY site & vicinity? Are you at all concerned with where the children of the 6,000 families who are supposed to live there going to go to school? What about park usage — since AY will not include any new active recreational sites (ie, baseball diamonds), what’s going to happen to the already overbooked fields in Prospect Park when 15,000 more people move in next door? What about the crowding of the subways? Have you ever tried to get on a train at the 2/3 platform at rush hour? And what about all the increases in density to come — what about the residential towers Ratner plans to build on top of his two malls? Where’s the infrastructure planning for that?
You claim to be pro-environment. If so, aren’t you concerned about the lack of transportation planning for AY? Because, of course, there might not be near the level of opposition to this arena if it were accompanied by a comprehensive traffic plan. I would support the arena if there were absolutely no underground parking associated with it, and if there were zoning to disallow the construction of parking garages, and if there were residential parking stickers for adjacent neighborhoods, and if there were congestion pricing for travel to downtown and midtown Manhattan so that Flatbush/4th Ave/Atlantic traffic were reduced.
You seem to believe that just because AY is on top of subway lines, that means people will use them. But people fail to use public transit all the time. 80% of Manhattan bound drivers possess an untaken transit alternative.
If the existence of public transportation were all that were needed to solve horrendous levels of traffic and all the attendant ills — asthma, pedestrian and cyclist deaths, poor street ambience — the concern about the effect of AY on traffic congestion wouldn’t exist in the first place. People choose to drive — unless it’s made too expensive for them. Where is the planning that will ensure that AY won’t lead to horrible congestion?
And what is the (your) definition of “too dense”; please cite some metrics (which take into account the unique transportation options at AY)
David, there is dense and then there is too dense. Then again, to use the words differently, there is dense and then there is oblivious … you’re the latter. Me? Oh, I am just a professional urban planner; what would I know?
Actually – the whole term “densest residential community” – is misleading – what is a ‘community’ within this definition, what are you including/excluding – what are the assumptions you are making in terms of family size etc….
But no matter – no one is ignoring this anyway – it isnt an “inconvenient truth” – it is APPROPRIATE.
Density is what is necessary to deal with that other “inconvenient truths” known as global warming and sprawl.
Density is what makes mass transit and walking viable transportation options.
AY is a mass transit hub that in terms of lines/options may be the biggest in the country and by use in the top 5. Therefore Atlantic Yards is the appropriate place for dense residential, commercial and entertainment venues.
No matter how you spin it more people will be taking mass transit (and walking) to Nets games at AY then at the Meadowlands. Less people will be driving to Manhattan to an apartment built at AY then one built in Bay Ridge, etc, etc…
Opposing dense development is one of the most anti-enviromental stance one can take.
All these fake organic food eating, co-op shopping, vegan AY protesters are the ultimate hypocrites. Its funny how everyone wants to “do something” about the enviroment, until it effects them. NIMBY