Ratner to Break Ground on March 11th
In the wake of yesterday’s ruling against the property owners in the footprint of the Barclay’s Center, the Daily News reported that Forest City Ratner will break ground on March 11. State officials said that the evictions would happen over the next several months. Reactions from those who stand to be displaced by eminent domain…
In the wake of yesterday’s ruling against the property owners in the footprint of the Barclay’s Center, the Daily News reported that Forest City Ratner will break ground on March 11. State officials said that the evictions would happen over the next several months. Reactions from those who stand to be displaced by eminent domain ranged from angry to belligerent. “It feels like I live in a state run by crooks,” said Daniel Goldstein. “There’s chains on the bar and a lot of people will be buying handcuffs,” said Steve de Seve of Freddy’s bar, which has served as a gathering spot for those opposed to the project.
Judge Gives Atlantic Yards Project the Green Light [NY Daily News]
bkn4life, you totally missed my point. Any judge can be corrupt, but in this case how many judges have been involved? Everytime I look in the paper there’s another lawsuit filed. You cant lay it all at gerge’s feet, and then blame the entire judiciary. If they/you think all the judges are corrupt then frankly there’s no sense in filing further suits and chaining themselves to the bar.
Like I said, the ratner deal may stink when seen in the light of day, but that doesnt say anything about the performance of all the judges that have touched this case. At what point will you accept that the law itself does not support the position of the homeowners in this case? I hear nothing about the interpretation of the law. That would be a useful conversation in which reasonable people could disagree. Public use is at the very heart of the debate. Instead, all I hear is defamation and wild accusations indicting the integrity of the entire judiciary.
scrutinize all you want, but all I see so far isnt scrutiny, just sheer speculation on one end and defamation on the other.
g-man:
My hunch is that we agree more than disagree, although yesterday’s comment didn’t, to my read, rise to a statement of fact and I was surprised at the indignation it prompted, not so much from you (your post was to the point yesterday) but from some other pro-AY posters. I certainly agree with your statement that “This project and almost everything related to it have been an abomination. It is almost impossible, short of the several million words written Norman Oder, to list all of the awfulness.â€
I also agree that the personal attacks throughout the whole wretched process have only served to obscure important issues, not clarify them. I just think that there needs to be a context in which the debate (or lack of real debate) on AY is discussed – or remembered – and it seems neither fair nor correct to characterize only opponents of AY as the people who resorted to personal attacks, while ignoring what seemed to be pretty clear efforts by proponents to stifle any opposition.
Public forums – going back to the EIS hearing years ago – were deliberately staged by AY supporters (and it took money to do it) in a way that was intimidating to anyone with an opposing view and, in many instances, that intimidation was directed toward public officials. Those hearing were just plain nasty – and they were the only public venues (as opposed to blogs) for “debate†about the project. In sum, I found the excess of personal attacks to be far more on the side of proponents than opponents.
fsrq:
“The arena is the LAST thing Ratner actually wants to build – he’ll likely lose money on the arena or at best break even – Ratner wants to develop the other remaining acres – with housing or office or retail – whatever will get him the highest sq ft – he HAS to build the arena because that is the basis for political support and subsidies as well as gets him most of the way there to establish that the ED taking were for public benefit.”
Exactly – the public discussion has always been focused on the arena – with an amazing disregard for the fact that they are money losers and don’t do squat for a neighborhood – only in this case, it’s more like your money and my money that is being lost. Affordable housing was supposed to be part of the public benefit – but we sure aren’t likely to be subsidizing that in any time in the near future.
@fsrg
That can’t be said enough. I personally think Kelo was the right judicial call (constitutionality of ED) but a horrible decision by the city. But it should be noted that ED is, for the most part a liberal policy tool, not the result of “money-grubbing Republicans.”
“> I think it’s time for everyone to move on.
I’m sure you’d feel the way if it were your home being seized via eminent domain, right?”
I love my home. But if someone came along today and offered me a price significantly in excess of market value for it, let’s just say I wouldn’t exactly stand on sentiment.
Yeah, it’s time to move on.
“AY was never really about housing – it was always about the stadium – and even today the housing promises are further and further in the future and not even on site.”
– your quote demonstrates your complete lack of understanding of AY; The arena is the LAST thing Ratner actually wants to build – he’ll likely lose money on the arena or at best break even – Ratner wants to develop the other remaining acres – with housing or office or retail – whatever will get him the highest sq ft – he HAS to build the arena because that is the basis for political support and subsidies as well as gets him most of the way there to establish that the ED taking were for public benefit.
Finally any animosity for Gerges is just silly – he wasnt reviewing the whole project, or ED or really anything beyond a condemnation proceeding – he is just the lucky judge to get the last hold out case (although I predict their will be a last bit of litigation attempted). Some of you may not remeber because due to obstruction and frivolous litigation it has taken so long to get here – but the only Judges who mattered for this project were the ones who ruled in Kelo – once that case was decided EVERYTHING that followed (from a legal ruling point of view) was a forgone conclusion – and if you go back and read the commentary from the time, every legal scholar said the same thing. If you want to be angry at justices try the liberal wing of Stevens, Ginsberg, Breyer, Souter and Kennedy
> I think it’s time for everyone to move on.
I’m sure you’d feel the way if it were your home being seized via eminent domain, right?
bkn4life, I was referring to your implications (1) that because Gerges was wrong (and lost) on the issue of parking for judges, which wasn’t even a court case, all of his legal decisions must be suspect; and (2) that because he is retiring, he has cover for making a decision that is wrong on the merits.
Brooklyn Red, bxgrl said yesterday that Gerges took a pay-off. If she has any proof of that, she should forward that to Chief Judge Jonathan Lippman. Otherwise, it is just sour grapes. There is more than enough reason for this project to give people a bad taste in their mouth, but personal attacks on good people in government who are doing their jobs with integrity doesn’t even the score for Bloomberg, Markowitz, etc.
Oh, and yes Red, I was quite vociferous about how the mock public hearing was conducted, which I attended from start to finish.
Again, no Nimbys here. Just people smart enough to know they’ve been fleeced.
Thanks to whowever above mentioned yesterday’s thread. Was too busy to read it then, but it is precious and definitely worth a read (for those who haven’t already).
Gotta love folks who, unburdened by actual facts, just spew accusations and hyperbole. At this point, they’re like petulant children throwing their toys out of the crib. I think I may have to rephrase my earlier question: what are we going to do for entertainment when this whole AY thing is (finally) done?