Inside Third & Bond: Week 3
After discussing last week how they snagged the deal when the first buyer balked, the folks at the Hudson Companies talk this week about lining up the various professionals needed to see their condo project at 11 Third Street in Gowanus from start to finish. Often times we’re asked, what does a developer do? We’re…

After discussing last week how they snagged the deal when the first buyer balked, the folks at the Hudson Companies talk this week about lining up the various professionals needed to see their condo project at 11 Third Street in Gowanus from start to finish.
Often times we’re asked, what does a developer do? We’re not the architect, nor the contractor nor the lender nor the management company, so what exactly is our role? Well, one thing we do is hire everyone else.
When you start, you first have to assemble your development team based on your vision for the project. Our concept, as discussed in the first posting, was straightforward: walk-up condo townhouses, each approximately 20 feet wide, each containing 4 to 5 units, that would be a quality product, sell for $700-$800/sf and cost $230-250/sf to build. Our development team has to reflect that vision, and our ability to work well with everyone will determine how successful the project is.
For the architect, we hired Rogers Marvel. They had just completed 14 Townhouses on State Street, and we were very impressed with the design—particularly how the new townhomes blend with the historic townhomes across the street without succumbing to imitation and how the streetscape manages to avoid monotony even though it’s more or less the same building repeated 14 times. We appreciated that both partners showed up to the initial meeting—definitely a good sign that this would be a priority for them. When we meet with new architects, we always try to sense how responsive they will be to our concerns. We don’t want a tense dynamic to develop where the architects are designing a custom home anticipating a photo spread in a magazine, and we’re just desperate to bring the job in on budget. We liked them right away and got excited by the really cool models they promised.
For the broker…
…we hired Leslie Marshall and Jim Cornell of Corcoran. They sold 14 Townhouses and L3, a nearby condominium on Luquer Street which we see as extremely comparable to our development, and we hope to get great input from Leslie and Jim regarding our future buyers. The conversation with Leslie and Jim started more than a year ago when we first bid on Third Street. The dialogue with brokers early on goes something like this: Leslie, we’re bidding on a site, Third and Bond, what’s the number? Can I get $700 or $750? Everyone assumes you’ll figure out the details later if you get the site, since 9 out of 10 early phone calls go nowhere.
Now that it’s a real project, broker input is critical regarding amenities, floor plans, price points. What we don’t want to hear is a laundry list of endless items that the building must have. That’s easy to do. What we’re looking for are priorities about where to spend our limited dollars: the appliances, central air, ceiling height, marble baths, etc, etc. Every feature has a budget value and we need to assess where to splurge and where to save. We think Leslie and Jim will be extremely valuable in giving us thoughtful direction.
We’re also, mostly at Alison’s insistence, giving serious thought to going green for this project and building it LEED-certified. Again, we need the right consultant and want to understand what this means and what’s the impact on construction, marketing, scheduling, budgeting, and oh yes, the environment. To hold our hand and lead us in this task, we hired Steven Winter Associates (SWA).
With these hirings, we’re already a little over our soft costs budget. It’s not time to panic, but you have to watch each line item. You don’t want to look up in January and say, how did our break-even costs rise to $690/sf?
So, we’ve started weekly project meetings at Hudson with Rogers Marvel, Corcoran, SWA, Plus Group (our mechanical engineer), Severud Associates (our structural engineer), Dewberry (our civil engineer) and our expeditor, Irene Berzak. Usually we’ve worked with at least three quarters of the development team on prior projects and we all know each other well. With this team, we’ve only worked with Irene before, probably because this townhouse product is different than what we usually do. So we’re a bunch of strangers working together for the first time on a time sensitive project with pressing goals and a lot of complex design work to get done. A bold beginning, indeed.
In response to Guest 4:02 who asked about floor plans, renderings, green design and parking, the idea is to explore here all of these issues and more as the development evolves. Stay tuned.
From our lawyers: This is not an offering. No offering can be made until an offering plan is filed with the Department of Law of the State of New York.”
Inside Third & Bond: Week 2 [Brownstoner]
Inside Third & Bond: Week 1 [Brownstoner]
It sounds like you are doing everything right – probably why you agreed to blog the project! I LOVE the architecture of 14 townhouses on State – really lovely, so makes me very happy as an owner on 1st st btw hoyt and bond that you are going with them. Think it’s very smart to go green. Lots of tax breaks and ultimately the owners save SO much money. Much easier to do it from the start rather than retrograding. And you’ll get much more publicity! Wondering what exactly an “expiditer” is. Sounds like a great job (yell at everyone all the time to get their asses in gear? move the paperwork through faster?)
Thanks, Hudson folks, for another good post–and particularly for hiring Rogers Marvel architects, who did a spectacular job on 14 Townhouses. (They’re expensive and I don’t love the location, but the buildings are great for both the reasons you cited.) Will be interesting to see RM go modern and contextual (one hopes) with 5-unit townhouses.
It’s valuable for buyers, renters, owners, readers to see the complexity and the cost of the millions of decisions developers make. So many new buildings here in brooklyn are sooooo ugly and so depressing, yet, you think about cost/risk, complexity, and potential profit/loss and it makes it a little more understandable (if not forgiveable) where those goddammed Fedders buildings come from. And suggests a dialogue that could, dare to dream, maybe help more developers build cool stuff, ya know?
Can you give an idea how much it adds to the cost to do something new and cool with an architect like RM versus just slapping up some hack job?
Meanwhile, I think it would also be interesting to do Q&As with brokers on the site now and then–with tough questions, not just puffy ones. Although the first broker I’d like to read about is Mary Kay. Damn, that broad seems to have a lock on her hood, and the houses are almost always gorgeous.
What is the difference between what the structural engineer does and the civil engineer?
My husband was hired to write/edit a blog for a major website last year (he quit recently) and the website didn’t allow linkbacks in comments. Only in the body of the main editorial blog text, would my husband link to a blogger once he was introduced to that person’s work and when he felt it was appropriate.
Back on topic, the job of a RE Developer is so much like being a film producer. It was fun to read this and see the similarities.
Mr B. You stated “will do” to to follow me links? You must be insane, Comment spam will only hurt your blog. Take this scenario, which I have seen done by people.
-Start a blog
-Leave comments on Brownstoner every day
-Build up the link love
-Have the start up blog indexed by google.
-Use startup blog to spam an every other black hat trick.
-Google will penalize the people who were linked to the spam blog.
-Resulting in negative PR rankings for brownstoner.
I have seen this done to Gowanus Lounge recently.
It’s a tactic used to sabotage a blog. I’m not saying that HerWayOrTheHighway will do that, but it’s not best practice to have link backs in comments.
Do what you want, it’s your blog, just giving a heads up.
MR. B Please don’t fall for the “Follow Me” request for comment spam. Get a life HerWayOrTheHighway and get off your ass and promote your blog with some good content that people would be interested in at your blog… Getting traffic from Follow me kinks is lame and black hat SEO. Good job Mr. b for cutting off the trolls.
My favorite part was when you said that it’s important to let the Brokers tell you what kind of amenities to have and not the architects. If you want to know why so many projects suck so hard, you need look no further than the marketing people who have no training in architecture, interiors or construction yet get to decide really critical things about a project. I’ve listened to friends who work for large architecture offices tell me over and over again how terrible marketing people make terrible mistakes, adding and subtracting “amenities.”
will do
Mr. B, why not include URL as part of commenter’s profile like your “old” comment formatting? Random traffic to my blog, however infrequent, can only be a good thing, no?