Tuesday Blogwrap
Montrose and Union. Photo by emilyshu from the Brownstoner Flickr Pool. LOX Bar…Let’s Speak On It [Clinton Hill Chill] SXSW Shows You Can Still See [Brooklyn Based] Steal This Look: Springlike Yellow Living Room [Remodelista] The Lone Remnant of a Fifth Avenue Institution [Here is Park Slope] Brooklyn Library Apologizes to Breast-Feeding Mother [Gothamist]
Montrose and Union. Photo by emilyshu from the Brownstoner Flickr Pool.
LOX Bar…Let’s Speak On It [Clinton Hill Chill]
SXSW Shows You Can Still See [Brooklyn Based]
Steal This Look: Springlike Yellow Living Room [Remodelista]
The Lone Remnant of a Fifth Avenue Institution [Here is Park Slope]
Brooklyn Library Apologizes to Breast-Feeding Mother [Gothamist]
snappy- actually I was referring to denton, not you :-). You I love!
Bxgirl, I certainly didn’t mean to “bash” your opinion or commitment to women’s rights. If my post came out that way, I truly apologize to you. No harm meant.
Well, I pretty much disgree with a lot of it. Sorry but breastfeeding in public was not a big issue until rather recently and plenty of our mothers managed to feed us quite well no matter where we were.
1. not only did denton make a sexist comment, he did it to imply that if I think the woman made a big blow up out of nothing I am somehow her enemy. I am hardly advocating putting her in jail or ripping the child from her arms. I’m saying how about a little consideration for the people around you.Since neither you nor denton have any idea of what my life has been or what issues I have dealt with, I found his comment insulting and sexist. The feminist movement had a lot more important rights to worry about.
2. Again- and people seem to be missing my point- what’s the big deal about it? Like millions of women haven’t coped with feeding babies before? Should all of us have to witness biological miracles in a restaurant? Face it- breastfeeding mothers are not a civil rights issue but a special status issue, so again- let me make it clear- my issue is that this woman exercised her “rights” under the law and then took such umbrage at a guard daring to express disapproval she went to the ACLU and threatened to sue. Sue for what? Ego bruising? Feeling disdained? What happened to the guard’s freedom of speech?
3. What stand up for her rights? Nothing was done to her, nothing was taken from her, nothing stopped her from breastfeeding. It’s the height of ridiculousness. And if she sued, she may not have gotten much or any money, but the BPL would have paid out thousands of dollars to fight it.
4. In this country we have decided civil rights is a smorgasboard and we pick and choose what are rights and to whom we dole them out. I used those examples- and I disagree they are bad although they were a bit of a stretch- because the so called right and law to breastfeed in public ( which has nothing to do with not being allowed to feed your child in public) hardly deserves to demand the attention of civil rights attorneys when there are so many more profound issues around.
And I think when you start picking and choosing you find yourself on a slippery slope indeed. you wrote: “It’s basic common sense and common knowledge that exposing one’s genitals simply for the sake of exposing them is not acceptable, particularly in the presence of children.” And yes, that’s true. On the other hand after reading some of the literature about the breastfeeding laws, it seems obvious that there is a double standard and a special status accorded breastfeeding women.
I’m done on the subject- that’s my opinion and everyone is free to agree or disagree. But I don’t feel its necessary to bash my commitment to women’s rights because I think the whole breastfeeding thing is a tempest in a teapot.
I had a feeling that link would start a bru-haha (sp?). I can’t help but weigh in here.
First, I don’t see anything sexist about what Denton said. It is often a fact that a woman’s main enemy is often another woman. Just because it was pointed out by a man does not make it sexist (in my eyes anyway).
Second, I don’t think the issue of public breastfeeding is akin to the gay marriage issue. Yes, as a lesbian I’d like to know that when I meet the right woman I have the option of doing what the heteros do, but that is hardly the same as a woman who breastfeeds and has a hungry baby and happens to be in a public place.
Third, I have to echo Brooklyn Chicken’s statement that we are missing quite a bit of context here. We need more facts about exactly what the guard said to this woman, how it was said, etc. Without the facts on full display, no real judgments can be made.
Fourth, Bxgirl, I think your comparison to a man choosing to display his ‘natural appendage’ in public is really not an argument you want to make. I understand that you were simply making a comparison, but I must say that’s a bad one. It’s basic common sense and common knowledge that exposing one’s genitals simply for the sake of exposing them is not acceptable, particularly in the presence of children. If this woman’s breast truly was fully exposed, she had a reason to have her breast out – to feed her child. Yep, you are right. There are baby bottles. But this woman, like millions of others, when she gave birth, chose to do what most doctors recommend and is totally natural and most healthy for babies – feed breast milk. And again, we don’t know how exposed the breast was, how many people were around, etc. What we do know is that, according the woman, “She [the security guard] was uncomfortable with the flesh of my breast being exposed.” Does ‘the flesh’ mean the top of the breast like what you would see if a woman were wearing a cleavage-revealing top? Does it mean a bit of nipple was out? Who knows?
So, what are we to say to breastfeeding moms who happen to be out in public when the baby starts screaming bloody murder and needs to be fed ‘tout de suite?’ Are we to tell them, you must stay home until your child is weaned lest you need to pull out a breast in a public venue? Insanity, I say! Insanity! Like it or not, the right to breastfeed in public is the law. There are many laws on the books that many of us will disagree with, however that does not make them disappear, nor does it mean those laws should not be enforced.
As for her running to the ACLU, that’s her right. (Disclosure to those of you who don’t know this, but I’m an attorney – not for the ACLU though). We live in a litigious society and people love to sue. Does that mean this woman is simply litigious and out for money? Nope. It simply means that, in all likelihood, she felt her rights were being trampled and went to the once place where it’s a sure fire bet that someone would assist her in standing up for her rights. I highly doubt that if she sued the BPL she’d get any substantial sum in damages, but nothing is guaranteed.
Oh, and at most, I think the guard should simply have been re-trained regarding the laws and what is or is not permissible in the library. Nothing else.
(Sorry that was so long. I guess that was my $.25 worth instead of $.02)
Really, mopar?
“As usual, seems that the main enemy of women is, yup, another woman. ”
You find nothing sexist in that, especially coming from a guy? I find that amazing.
Most breastfeeding is done discreetly. But this woman was so offended by even being spoken to about her breastfeeding in the children’s section of the public library she went to the ACLU, not the library adminstration, and then threatened to sue. You don’t find that a tad hyperreactive?
1 guard said somehting to her, she was not stopped from breastfeeding, she was not escorted out of the building, no one laid a hand on her and the guard walked away from her when she argued. Pardon me but I think the woman was an idiot- not for breastfeeding, but for trying to use it to get attention and even money from the public library. Unless you and denton think the City or the library should pay tax dollars to someone for their minutely bruised ego?
And I’d also like to point out that the mother went to the ACLU- not because she was forced to stop breastfeeding her baby (she wasn’t), or made to leave the library (she wasn’t), but because the guard “scolded” her. In other words because the guard SPOKE to her. And she also threatened the Public library with legal action. ACLU? Legal Action? By all means protect your right to breastfeed by nuking the public library or making them grovel. Yeah- like the public library has so much money and is so unimportant to our communities. And that’s what you think feminism is? Right. And I’m an enemy of other women. Right.
I see no sexist remark from Denton here. None at all. Must defend him.
As for breastfeeding in public, can’t it be done under a scarf or shawl?
I understand its the law but that doesn’t make it less hypocritical.You yourself just said its a question of civil rights- so why should it be “unhelpful” to mention gay rights? Essentially you’re saying it’s fine to allow women to let it all hang out in public so long as they are mothers, but lets not muddy up the issue for gay women who not only don’t have the right to marry, but in many states aren’t even allowed to become mothers.
And how about men? Since the idea seems to be because breasts are there to feed babies, well, we all know what a dick is for. Why- since that’s a natural appendage too- shouldn’t it be a man’s civil right to expose himself? Yeah- gets a little sticky in the civl rights area, And since its ok to let a woman breastfeed in front of young children- as this woman was doing in the public library- why won’t it be ok for a guy to stand around naked in front of them too?
The issue isn’t a woman’s right to feed her child. Let’s not go to heights of ridiculousness here. Isn’t that why baby bottles were invented? No one of my family or friends who raised kids ever felt the need to breastfeed in public. And frankly, when I go to a restaurant it’s a turn off. It isn’t my “delicate” sensibilities- I worked on a surgical ward and I was there when my sister gave birth. I stuck my finger in a hole in the cats chest to see if there was a sharp piece of metal in it.
If I had young children and I took them to a library, I would find it inappropriate for someone to be breast feeding in front of them. Who cares if its ok in other countries? Other countries also don’t believe in equal rights for women- so what does that prove? We stopped people from smoking in public places because second hand smoke affects us. Smokers claim their civil rights are trampled on. The idea that we can do whatever we want, whereever we want comes out of a feeling of entitlement and narcissism, not civil rights. Its an insult to even equate the right to breastfeed in public with the civil rights movement.
denton – anyone who can make a sexist, ignorant comment like you did hasn’t got the foggiest idea of what real feminism is about. Hint: it wasn’t about breastfeeding in public.
bxgirl, it’s not about your taste. It’s the LAW. Whether you like it or not. And it is a question of civil rights, and not only that, it’s a question of common sense. But you seem to be offering a quid pro quo here–let gay women get married, and then straight women can breast feed in public? Is that your idea of feminism?
Like THL says, mixing up gay rights with breast feeding is not helpful, and for the record, if two women want to get married, I could care less. Like they say, let them suffer like the rest of us. Furthermore, as a fiscal and business conservative, I would never get between two people who wish to enter into a binding contract.
I stand by my sexist comment. Of course, no doubt there are delicious race and class issues in there as well, but we can save those for the next incident.