Quote of the Day
The final dots that need to be connected are left unconnected by Ourossoff. Bait-and-switchers don’t just bait-and-switch once, it is a pattern. And if Ratner’s Gehry bait-and-switch is stunning, so is the bait-and-switch on “affordable” housing, “publicly accessible open space,” job creation, commercial space, reneging on a contract with the MTA, and changing the project…
The final dots that need to be connected are left unconnected by Ourossoff. Bait-and-switchers don’t just bait-and-switch once, it is a pattern. And if Ratner’s Gehry bait-and-switch is stunning, so is the bait-and-switch on “affordable” housing, “publicly accessible open space,” job creation, commercial space, reneging on a contract with the MTA, and changing the project timeline from 10 years to, unofficially “decades” and officially 6 years to build just the arena according to state financing documents. Atlantic Yards itself is a monument to bait-and-switch.
— by DDDB in Ratner Cans Gehry For Good
THL- those are great! Wow- we New Yorkers should hang our heads in shame. So explain to us, benson why Jersey can do that and we can’t?
THL;
Do you really want to compare Cadillac’s with Chevy’s?
“The outrage was not commesurate with the quality of the proposal. But the public does not differentiate between good and bad; they just want nothing built anywhere at any time. This is a knee-jerk reaction that is not in the best interests of the future of the Borough. …. Public input is fine as far as it goes but it can be as often hysterical and ridiculous as it can be legitimate and rational. The process should be able to discriminate between the two extremes.”
I think you’re saying two conflicting things. If the public does not discriminate between good and bad, and only respond with kneww-jerk reactions, how do you explain all the public support Ratner did get? And if we can’t discriminate, how is it you say we can be legitimate and rational as often as hysterical and ridiculous?
It has always been AY supporters’ method to ignore what anti-AY people are complaining about. Knee-jerk response: NIMBYISM! I have yet to hear and pro AYer address the many legitimate complaints and concerns the public has. The reaction runs from patriarchical condescension to name-calling to blame, but never to considering the very real concerns of the public regarding density, infrastructure, cost, size, etc. And please don’t try to use the community agreements signed with Acorn and other activists as an idication of Ratners concern for the community. It was a cynical attempt to manipulate and divide the community.
So while “public input may be fine as far as it goes,” if the public is putting money into it, it has a right to input.
“There has to be room for criticism in your angry world of free market populism, doesn’t there?”
My, my ,my we are getting a bit touchy there.
Granted these are in Jersey City but they’re new construction:
http://www.hhrealtycorp.com/jerseycityrealestateforsale/index.php?option=com_cmsrealty&Itemid=26&action=listingview&listingID=40&cmsrealty=user
and this…
http://www.libertyharbor.com/townhouses.php#
There’s absolutely no reason that the facade of a fedders building needs to look as out of context as it always does. If you believe that then you know nothing about windows, bricks, etc. A little architectural though goes a long way.
THL;
If you go through my posts, you will see that I have done PRECISELY that. Here are just a couple:
-one of the biggest constraints these builders face is the requirement for on-site parking. Given that these buildings cannot pull in enough dollars to justify an underground garage, they driveways are put out front.
-these buildings are not at a price point to justify central A/C. Hence, through-the-wall AC “Fedder” sleeves are required.
-their price points require that they use materials from the derided “Home depot” stock.
-the city’s building code is the toughest in the nation, and doesn’t discriminate between low-cost or higher-end housing.
I am not an architect or designer, so I don’t know a solution. What I am suggesting is that the appropriate folks be invited to discuss possible solutions, instead of armchair generals engaging in a combination of snark, derision and holier-than-thou “developers are greedy” preaching. I’d like to learn something from this site again. The conversation is becoming trite.
Maly,
Which politicians exactly do you plan to vote out of office? Pataki — the main culprit — is long gone. And most of the other officials responsible for approving Atlantic Yards — the members of the ESDC — are not elected. In fact, not one elected official in Brooklyn had anything to do with Atlantic Yards (unless you count Marty Markowitz, who is a proponent, but doesn’t have any actual power concerning this project). That’s one of the biggest problems with AY. The people of Brooklyn are totally disenfranchised when it comes to development like this.
Benson,
You’re conflating two issues. One is moral outrage at people like Scarano and Ratner who cut corners or otherwise try to beat the system; the other is a mix of aesthetics and concern for safety, which drives the broad disdain for Fedders buildings. We have had plenty of nice things to say about some developments–Toren and Schermerhorn House both leap to mind, and there have been countless others (Third and Bond certainly appears to be on its way to being a nice project)–but it is true that in the majority of cases poor taste and a lack of creativity conspire with budget short-cuts to create eye sores and financial disaster for anyone ignorant enough to buy into them. It may seem to you to be a bit of a snobby view, but the developers who are doing this hit-and-run slap jobs are worthy of our and everyone else’s derision. Have you driven through parts of Bed Stuy and Bushwick lately and seen the crap that’s been built in the last five years that’s either abandoned, half-finished or looks twenty years old already? These communities don’t deserve it. There has to be room for criticism in your angry world of free market populism, doesn’t there?