quotation-icon.jpgThe final dots that need to be connected are left unconnected by Ourossoff. Bait-and-switchers don’t just bait-and-switch once, it is a pattern. And if Ratner’s Gehry bait-and-switch is stunning, so is the bait-and-switch on “affordable” housing, “publicly accessible open space,” job creation, commercial space, reneging on a contract with the MTA, and changing the project timeline from 10 years to, unofficially “decades” and officially 6 years to build just the arena according to state financing documents. Atlantic Yards itself is a monument to bait-and-switch.

— by DDDB in Ratner Cans Gehry For Good


What's Your Take? Leave a Comment

  1. MM – “Lastly, I am so tired of the argument that a stadium is perfect at the AY site because of the intersection of subway lines. Only having one or two lines available never dissuaded anyone from going to Yankee Stadium or Shea.”

    Really? How would you know THAT? Have you polled the entire city? or even just the thousands of people who choose to drive to Yankee Sta and Citi/Shea Field?????

    “More importantly, these lines are already overcrowded now.”

    And again you base this on what??? Which lines are you talking?; at what time?? Which would add more overcrowding – a 20K seat stadium along 1 or 2 subway lines or along 10 subway lines?

    “The MTA has no plans of extending the platforms, which is the only way to get more passengers on what would have to be longer trains. Is it possible or safe to even have longer trains. They say they can’t run more trains than they do now, that the tracks are full to capacity, and runner more trains runs a higher risk in safety concerns.””

    You think the tracks have the maximum trains during off-hours & weekends???? (many games/events are at least partially starting or ending during off-hours and weekends).
    How about more frequent trains even during rush hour -possible with better signaling – (which is planned) or faster trains (also possible with eventual upgrades) – point is – if you build stuff far from most mass transit then these changes/upgrades wont help relieve congestion & traffic – if you plan ahead you can take advantage of mass transit now AND in the future….BTW are they planning more roads in the Tri-state region? because while the subways may seem crowded – so do the roads

    MM – sorry but you are just WRONG – there is no logical argument that says placing development next to Mass transit is not more efficient than far away – no matter the current capacity or usage.

  2. JPD-
    1. Brownstones were not only built for the upper middle class. If you look at different brownstone and/or rowhouse nieghborhoods you will see those that were built for richer families and those built for lower middle and working class families. The fact that they seem more luxurious in their details is because they were built with a different aesthetic, and they had the trained labor. What you’re actually saying is- gosh- even the cheap buildings for working class families looks a hell of a lot better than the crap they put up today.

    2. We have touted how much better our technology is today- that we can build cheaper, bigger and better than previous generations. And yet- quite obviously we can’t. Even going back as late as the 1930’s- it’s obvious. The Empire State Building was built in a year and 4 months- with out the technology or equipment we use today. That building is a marvel of great construction. But today you claim we can’t afford to put up a better looking profitable building in a working class neighborhood? So much for our modern improvements.

    3. Fedders buildings are for the most part put up on empty lots- of course they’re empty. The previous building has been torn down to make room for the new one. Why else do you think preservationists are fighting so hard to get landmarked? Because beautiful, well built structures that could be saved are being torn down to make way for ugly fedders sh*t.

    4. Many people have pointed out the truth about design. It doesn’t have to be overly expensive. It just has to have forethought- ask any architect. There is a difference between making a profit and maximizing profit to the point of undermining the quality of your product. Stories abound about the quality of new construction- it’s poor. I have a friend who is a contractor- most of her work is repairing new construction.

    5. If your point about how much a developer can reasonably spend in a poorer neighborhood is true, then why do most of them try to market their poorly made crap as “luxury” apartments? A little truth in advertising please.

  3. JDP, you are grossly misinformed in most of your points. First of all, ALL row houses were NOT built for the upper middle classes. Even a casual perusal of building materials, styles, interior materials and trim, size and location show that they were built for different income levels, different markets. If what you said were to be true, then the entirety of brownstoner Brooklyn, which is a lot of territory, was inhabited by an enormous upper middle class. Obviously, that was never the case. Apartment buildings, which began as upper class housing, before trickling down to the lower classes, are a rather later development, and there just aren’t enough tenement buildings, or even shacks in any part of Brownstone Bklyn that would have housed all the people needed to support this enormous upper middle class. That would be way too many chiefs, not enough Indians.

    Secondly, I hope many of these formerly empty blocks NEVER become “fully upper middle class”. That’s what’s wrong with a lot of thinking in Brooklyn now. Regardless, lack of money is no excuse for poor architecture. One need only look at the row of townhouses on Greene Ave between Wash and St James, or the Ratner built houses along Fulton St, in Clinton Hill/Ft. Greene. Contextural design, real brick bricks, classic detailing, yet still 3 family. Why is it so hard to do now?

    If I had any money whatsoever, I’d take you up on your challenge. I am sure I could do it.

    On another note, I also don’t see why central air is so much more expensive when you are doing new construction. The ductwork goes in with the plumbing and the electricity, while the walls are still open. What’s the big deal?

    Lastly, I am so tired of the argument that a stadium is perfect at the AY site because of the intersection of subway lines. Only having one or two lines available never dissuaded anyone from going to Yankee Stadium or Shea. More importantly, these lines are already overcrowded now. The MTA has no plans of extending the platforms, which is the only way to get more passengers on what would have to be longer trains. Is it possible or safe to even have longer trains. They say they can’t run more trains than they do now, that the tracks are full to capacity, and runner more trains runs a higher risk in safety concerns. If people already have to let 2 or 3 trains go by, as I often have to do when I’m there during rush hour, how is adding thousands upon thousands more going to work? NO ONE from FCR, the MTA or the city has ever decently answered that question.