Hmm…..but sophisticated is not a good in and of itself. Growing up with morals, principles, and respect is. And having a good family is the best advantage anybody can have in dealing respectfully in the broader world. You get the right foundation and everything can be learned.
We grew up in different times. Also, exposure to other groups is a good thing but not necessarily what makes a person respectful of others of different backgrounds. It just might make them a little more sophisticated. Like Snappy, I was not used to the new world I found when I left the world of my childhood and adolescence and it was a bit of culture shock, but the the right values I grew up with helped me to negotiate that.
Call me lucky- I really grew up in a diverse neighborhood. Not to say there was no prejudice- i saw it first hand, but it was not the norm. Of all people, benson has no right to talk for RF. Complete misinterpretation of what she said- and she is right. Her daughter has a much wider experience of people than RF did growing up. It was a statement of fact, not an admission of white liberal guilt or a slap at white people.
Growing up in a a neighborhood where everyone is just like you offers few advantages in today’s world. The sense of community, and close ties and being able to live within your culture- all great. But the world is smaller and smaller- xenophobia serves no one well. RF’s daughter will be able to move comfortably wherever she goes. She’ll be that much more effective than someone who has no expereicne of working with other people and who cannot empathize with those who have a different life experience. More power to her. And applause to rf for making sure she grew up in such a diverse neighborhood.
It’s too bad that benson and rob don’t gd’et this. More surprising because benson works with the Japanese. And rob only goes places on the internet so what does that say?
When I first moved to Clinton Hill in 1989, when it was at least 95 percent black, I was uncomfortable walking around in the street. I was really embarrassed with myself, but I am sure it was because I didn’t have a whole lot of experience living as one of the only white people there. It made me very self-conscious until I realized that my fellow pedestrians were paying absolutely no attention to me–they were used to white people in a way that I was not used to black people. It took about 6 months to get over that feeling. Since I was living there, I had enough time to analyze the feeling and get over it. Maybe that has something to do with people feeling like their lives are endangered, that they are walking targets, when they are in a very small minority of whatever kind in a neighborhood.
Rob, get off it already. Neither of these neighborhoods is anti-gay, no matter what you insist to be true. If a couple of people were called out on their sexuality here, that doesn’t mean squat.
People get called out in the Village, and have been beat up and murdered in the Village, over the years. Then the Village should be categorized as the most gay unfriendly place in NY. Obviously it is not. Sadly enough, gay bashing can happen anywhere, in any community. People can be homophobic anywhere.
Crown Heights was home to the oldest black gay bar in the city. If they were lined up outside the bar to beat up patrons, or harass them, in the last 30 years, we’d have known about it. Nothing. As far as white gays in the nabe, I know several couples who have bought homes, male and female, and see plenty of other gay couples, male and female, walking around, walking their dogs, going about their business, not worried about being mugged, beat up or called names.
I’m sorry 11217 felt uncomfortable here, and I’m sorry anyone of any persuasion was harassed for their color, income or sexual orientation. But the facts remain, this is NOT a gay unfriendly neighborhood, and I really wish you’d stop. Especially since you have never, ever, been here.
Thanks, Snappy. Benson has been making snide remarks about me lately, even when I’m not on the OT all day. And Rob…well, for sure my daughter knows that a gay guy of any color doesn’t risk his life walking through Crown Heights, or Bed-Stuy for that matter, nor does a short, cute 15-year-old Chinese girl or her fat old white Jewish mother. My daughter spent the day with friends from school in Prospect Park, then went home to Canarsie with her West Indian lab partner, to finish their chemistry project.
Oh, get down off your cross, Benson. I believe the implication was simply that growing up in an environment where everyone is just like you racially and/or economically, leads to a somewhat limited experience. The same holds true for a black child who, say for example, grows up in the projects in Red Hook and never ventures beyond his/her immediate neighborhood and only knows/associates with people just like him/her. Being thrust into a racially and economically diverse environment from an early age, whether that be via the location in which one lives or the schools attended, would necessarily open one’s eyes to different people, types of living, social norms, etc. You just don’t get that with a bunch of ‘sameness,’ regardless what color the ‘sameness’ comes in. White people were strange to me, having come from an all black and all poor neighborhood of Chicago. PA cured me of that. I arrived in NYC thinking all the light-skinned, curly haired folks were 1/2 black and 1/2 white, never having really been around Puerto Ricans, Dominicans, Mexicans, etc. 15+ years of living in Brooklyn has cured me of that. I don’t know RF’s child personally, but I feel pretty secure in stating that she’s starting off more knowledgeable about the world’s differences, etc. due to growing up in today’s Brooklyn as a Chinese-American girl with a white Jewish mother and living in a predominantly black neighborhood. The statement isn’t shocking. Nor is it the ‘white guilt’ of which you speak. Despite your taking it as such, not everything stated on this board with regard to race, class and experience is a knock against white people.
Jackal: 1
Beavers: 0
Suck it, bitches.
Hmm…..but sophisticated is not a good in and of itself. Growing up with morals, principles, and respect is. And having a good family is the best advantage anybody can have in dealing respectfully in the broader world. You get the right foundation and everything can be learned.
We grew up in different times. Also, exposure to other groups is a good thing but not necessarily what makes a person respectful of others of different backgrounds. It just might make them a little more sophisticated. Like Snappy, I was not used to the new world I found when I left the world of my childhood and adolescence and it was a bit of culture shock, but the the right values I grew up with helped me to negotiate that.
Call me lucky- I really grew up in a diverse neighborhood. Not to say there was no prejudice- i saw it first hand, but it was not the norm. Of all people, benson has no right to talk for RF. Complete misinterpretation of what she said- and she is right. Her daughter has a much wider experience of people than RF did growing up. It was a statement of fact, not an admission of white liberal guilt or a slap at white people.
Growing up in a a neighborhood where everyone is just like you offers few advantages in today’s world. The sense of community, and close ties and being able to live within your culture- all great. But the world is smaller and smaller- xenophobia serves no one well. RF’s daughter will be able to move comfortably wherever she goes. She’ll be that much more effective than someone who has no expereicne of working with other people and who cannot empathize with those who have a different life experience. More power to her. And applause to rf for making sure she grew up in such a diverse neighborhood.
It’s too bad that benson and rob don’t gd’et this. More surprising because benson works with the Japanese. And rob only goes places on the internet so what does that say?
When I first moved to Clinton Hill in 1989, when it was at least 95 percent black, I was uncomfortable walking around in the street. I was really embarrassed with myself, but I am sure it was because I didn’t have a whole lot of experience living as one of the only white people there. It made me very self-conscious until I realized that my fellow pedestrians were paying absolutely no attention to me–they were used to white people in a way that I was not used to black people. It took about 6 months to get over that feeling. Since I was living there, I had enough time to analyze the feeling and get over it. Maybe that has something to do with people feeling like their lives are endangered, that they are walking targets, when they are in a very small minority of whatever kind in a neighborhood.
Rob, get off it already. Neither of these neighborhoods is anti-gay, no matter what you insist to be true. If a couple of people were called out on their sexuality here, that doesn’t mean squat.
People get called out in the Village, and have been beat up and murdered in the Village, over the years. Then the Village should be categorized as the most gay unfriendly place in NY. Obviously it is not. Sadly enough, gay bashing can happen anywhere, in any community. People can be homophobic anywhere.
Crown Heights was home to the oldest black gay bar in the city. If they were lined up outside the bar to beat up patrons, or harass them, in the last 30 years, we’d have known about it. Nothing. As far as white gays in the nabe, I know several couples who have bought homes, male and female, and see plenty of other gay couples, male and female, walking around, walking their dogs, going about their business, not worried about being mugged, beat up or called names.
I’m sorry 11217 felt uncomfortable here, and I’m sorry anyone of any persuasion was harassed for their color, income or sexual orientation. But the facts remain, this is NOT a gay unfriendly neighborhood, and I really wish you’d stop. Especially since you have never, ever, been here.
quote:
well, for sure my daughter knows that a gay guy of any color doesn’t risk his life walking through Crown Heights, or Bed-Stuy for that matter
lol. well that’s naive of her.
*rob*
Thanks, Snappy. Benson has been making snide remarks about me lately, even when I’m not on the OT all day. And Rob…well, for sure my daughter knows that a gay guy of any color doesn’t risk his life walking through Crown Heights, or Bed-Stuy for that matter, nor does a short, cute 15-year-old Chinese girl or her fat old white Jewish mother. My daughter spent the day with friends from school in Prospect Park, then went home to Canarsie with her West Indian lab partner, to finish their chemistry project.
Oh, get down off your cross, Benson. I believe the implication was simply that growing up in an environment where everyone is just like you racially and/or economically, leads to a somewhat limited experience. The same holds true for a black child who, say for example, grows up in the projects in Red Hook and never ventures beyond his/her immediate neighborhood and only knows/associates with people just like him/her. Being thrust into a racially and economically diverse environment from an early age, whether that be via the location in which one lives or the schools attended, would necessarily open one’s eyes to different people, types of living, social norms, etc. You just don’t get that with a bunch of ‘sameness,’ regardless what color the ‘sameness’ comes in. White people were strange to me, having come from an all black and all poor neighborhood of Chicago. PA cured me of that. I arrived in NYC thinking all the light-skinned, curly haired folks were 1/2 black and 1/2 white, never having really been around Puerto Ricans, Dominicans, Mexicans, etc. 15+ years of living in Brooklyn has cured me of that. I don’t know RF’s child personally, but I feel pretty secure in stating that she’s starting off more knowledgeable about the world’s differences, etc. due to growing up in today’s Brooklyn as a Chinese-American girl with a white Jewish mother and living in a predominantly black neighborhood. The statement isn’t shocking. Nor is it the ‘white guilt’ of which you speak. Despite your taking it as such, not everything stated on this board with regard to race, class and experience is a knock against white people.