(I would also point out that any god who disagrees with me and decides to damn me to hellfire/torture/etc. [a seemingly favorite pastime] can do so in good conscience, because I think that makes them an asshole, and wouldn’t want to be part of their club anyway.)
Or, as my mother always says – Why would we want to go to heaven? None of our friends would be there!
lech (somewhere back there)- Yes, I think I’m conditionally agreeing with you: it’s impossible to disprove anything that doesn’t rely on the rules we use to disprove things.
It’s also pointless and outside the realm of rationality, which is what I use to run my world. Hence, I write them off. I can no more be bothered with the christian god than the ancient mayan gods or the roman gods or the millions of nameless idols of the early days of humanity. If you can’t prove it or disprove it, it might as well not exist.
I think most agnostics are, as I said before, agnostic about a particular style or type of god/higher power, not simply totally wishwashy on the entire concept of truth/reality. We call those people not ‘agnostic’ but ‘unhinged.’
As an atheist (which I have gradually come to realize I am), I come down firmly on the side of actual reality. Deciding to behave without regard to evidence and facts seems to me to be, uh, crazy.
Actually etson, I’m not sure I understood your reply “I also think that both ways argue against God being in a different category or ‘on a higher plane’ than lots of things we think about as rather mundane.”
I do think that if there is a G-d he would be a whole otehr dimension unto himself. One that biologically we don’t have the equipment to perceive in ways that someone like RF would perceive. I guess i am trying to say we don’t have the means to prove it scientifically at this point. But I really do mean there is a difference between perception and belief, in that belief and/or faith isn’t dependent on perception. Even if you say you perceive G-d, what you mean is that you “see” him around you- you can give reasons why you perceive him. But true belief or faith doesn’t need that necessarily. I know people who believe in G-d without being able to give any rationalization for the belief. Ultimately it doesn’t come down to is there a G-d or not, but how we come to our belief or disbelief.
RF- I think randomness is built into the system, as it were. I know people want there to be a reason for everything, but that’s a human need, it seems, not a divine one. No matter what, it gave you a wonderful daughter (but then gain, you’re a wonderful mom.) 🙂
quote:
Why would we want to go to heaven? None of our friends would be there!
ha! yes!
*rob*
Yes, Arkady….30s, 40s & 50s station wagons and Chrysler Town & Country concvertibles
“As an atheist (which I have gradually come to realize I am), I come down firmly on the side of actual reality.”
How is it that you know that “actual reality” includes the definitive non-existence of God?
(I would also point out that any god who disagrees with me and decides to damn me to hellfire/torture/etc. [a seemingly favorite pastime] can do so in good conscience, because I think that makes them an asshole, and wouldn’t want to be part of their club anyway.)
Or, as my mother always says – Why would we want to go to heaven? None of our friends would be there!
lech (somewhere back there)- Yes, I think I’m conditionally agreeing with you: it’s impossible to disprove anything that doesn’t rely on the rules we use to disprove things.
It’s also pointless and outside the realm of rationality, which is what I use to run my world. Hence, I write them off. I can no more be bothered with the christian god than the ancient mayan gods or the roman gods or the millions of nameless idols of the early days of humanity. If you can’t prove it or disprove it, it might as well not exist.
I think most agnostics are, as I said before, agnostic about a particular style or type of god/higher power, not simply totally wishwashy on the entire concept of truth/reality. We call those people not ‘agnostic’ but ‘unhinged.’
As an atheist (which I have gradually come to realize I am), I come down firmly on the side of actual reality. Deciding to behave without regard to evidence and facts seems to me to be, uh, crazy.
600
600
Actually etson, I’m not sure I understood your reply “I also think that both ways argue against God being in a different category or ‘on a higher plane’ than lots of things we think about as rather mundane.”
I do think that if there is a G-d he would be a whole otehr dimension unto himself. One that biologically we don’t have the equipment to perceive in ways that someone like RF would perceive. I guess i am trying to say we don’t have the means to prove it scientifically at this point. But I really do mean there is a difference between perception and belief, in that belief and/or faith isn’t dependent on perception. Even if you say you perceive G-d, what you mean is that you “see” him around you- you can give reasons why you perceive him. But true belief or faith doesn’t need that necessarily. I know people who believe in G-d without being able to give any rationalization for the belief. Ultimately it doesn’t come down to is there a G-d or not, but how we come to our belief or disbelief.
RF- I think randomness is built into the system, as it were. I know people want there to be a reason for everything, but that’s a human need, it seems, not a divine one. No matter what, it gave you a wonderful daughter (but then gain, you’re a wonderful mom.) 🙂
I just got the two dumbest fortunes I have ever gotten (both in one fortune cookie):
1. “Every man is a volume if you know how to read him.” TOTALLY NOT TRUE – MOST PEOPLE ARE DULLARDS!
2. “You have a deep appreciation of the arts and music.” TOTALLY NOT TRUE – MOST ARTS AND MUSIC ARE JUST FART SNIFFING!