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Agreed Donatella. Even in Rossini there are rules. The ornamented tradition in pop music is straight out of the black gospel tradition, and if you listen to the greats, they know when to ornament, and when to stop. Same in jazz. If you lose the tune, and are nothing but ornament, you’ve failed. Nowadays, pop singers, both black, white and otherwise are all trying to channel those gospel roots, whether they’ve been in that tradition or not.
It’s great that one is vocally flexible enough to ornament and stay in the right key, but if you listen to someone like Aretha Franklin ornament, or Luther Vandross or early Whitney, and then compare to some of these wannabees who are just showing off, it’s like night and day. Meandering off vocally for the sake of showing that you can is not honoring the music, or actually even singing the song.
There is a great story about Rossini. A famous soprano of his day wanted to impress him with her skill and facility in ornamentation, and sang one of his most famous arias, I think it was “Una voce poco fa” from Barber of Seville, with way too much overblown fluff, ornamenting for days. He let her finish, and then said, “Nice aria. Who wrote it?”
MM, I didn’t see your post about singing. I totally agree about the material and the fact that people aren’t trained to sing. A lot of it is vocal percussion. Pop singers who could REALLY sing: Whitney Houston, Aretha Franklin (Amazing voice — she could sing anything, including opera and can STILL sing) Beyonce (but material not so good).
i know im not one to talk… but anyone over 25 who watches and complains about anything on MTV needs, especially the video music awards, needs to find a better outlet for their entertainment.
MM – true! what bothers me is how raunchy the lyrics have gotten in R&B songs today. It’s just gross. Many of thee young guys sing horrible horrible lyrics and that’s what our teens are tuning into! There are some R&B singers out there who are amazing in style and song (Leelah James, Anthony Hamilton, Maxwell) and there are some great rock bands out there writing gorgeous songs (Fleet Foxes, Band of Horses, Broken Bells) but you have to go and find them – the mass public has no clue about them
just sad!
Agreed Donatella. Even in Rossini there are rules. The ornamented tradition in pop music is straight out of the black gospel tradition, and if you listen to the greats, they know when to ornament, and when to stop. Same in jazz. If you lose the tune, and are nothing but ornament, you’ve failed. Nowadays, pop singers, both black, white and otherwise are all trying to channel those gospel roots, whether they’ve been in that tradition or not.
It’s great that one is vocally flexible enough to ornament and stay in the right key, but if you listen to someone like Aretha Franklin ornament, or Luther Vandross or early Whitney, and then compare to some of these wannabees who are just showing off, it’s like night and day. Meandering off vocally for the sake of showing that you can is not honoring the music, or actually even singing the song.
There is a great story about Rossini. A famous soprano of his day wanted to impress him with her skill and facility in ornamentation, and sang one of his most famous arias, I think it was “Una voce poco fa” from Barber of Seville, with way too much overblown fluff, ornamenting for days. He let her finish, and then said, “Nice aria. Who wrote it?”
MM, I didn’t see your post about singing. I totally agree about the material and the fact that people aren’t trained to sing. A lot of it is vocal percussion. Pop singers who could REALLY sing: Whitney Houston, Aretha Franklin (Amazing voice — she could sing anything, including opera and can STILL sing) Beyonce (but material not so good).
“Ke$ha cereal”
Are you talking about Kashi cereal, idiot??? I like some of the Kashi Go-Lean cereals.
i know im not one to talk… but anyone over 25 who watches and complains about anything on MTV needs, especially the video music awards, needs to find a better outlet for their entertainment.
*rob*
dave, like lemmings over a cliff is one of my favorite expressions.
g10, back off from bashing link park
m4l, your 12:20pm totally cracked me up at my desk. Always a dead giveaway because NOTHING I’m otherwise looking at is the least bit amusing.
Expert-haaaaaaa!
MM – true! what bothers me is how raunchy the lyrics have gotten in R&B songs today. It’s just gross. Many of thee young guys sing horrible horrible lyrics and that’s what our teens are tuning into! There are some R&B singers out there who are amazing in style and song (Leelah James, Anthony Hamilton, Maxwell) and there are some great rock bands out there writing gorgeous songs (Fleet Foxes, Band of Horses, Broken Bells) but you have to go and find them – the mass public has no clue about them
just sad!
donatella, for me, it’s super easy to get the network reception.