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bxgrl,
The Bush administration sucessfully prosecuted dozens of foreign nationals caught in terrorist acts on US soil including the 1993 World Trade Center bombers. You admit that these were sucessful prosecutions (which we should remember the next time somebody says his presidency was a complete failure, but more on that later)and I do not disagree with the success of prosecuting foreign nationals caught in the act on US soil like the Buffalo conspirators or the Fort Dix conspirators or the Millennium plotters.
Foreign nationals acting as lone conspirators ON-US SOIL are given consitutional rights and this is established, foreign nationals are even given the right to challenge their imprisonment OFF-US soil(habeus corpus)through the Federal Court System as was established recently by the Supreme Court (which I feel is wrong but is now precedent) but that doesn’t mean that they all necessarily get an American trial! It provides for a Federal hearing on the validity of their detention (habeus corpus relates to unlawful imprisonment, it affords the right to request a determination on their imprisonment).
Then comes the complicated part, the laws governing Acts of War and the Geneva convention.
The radical Islamists and jihaadists that we are now facing are organized (if only in their hatred for the US and Israel) but not as a state, nor under a single flag, nor under a single uniform (in fact they make a point of not wearing a uniform in order to blend in with the innocent, not to mention that they target civilians including women and children);
thus they are not entitled to Geneva Convention rules and are not even given the recognition of “enemy soldiers” but only “enemy combatants”. The Bush administration chose to use the civil courts for many domestic cases as a matter of convenience.
Under the rules of war and the constitution “enemy combatants”, especially those caught on battlefields in another part of the world are treated as such and are subject to military law and tried by military tribunals or commissions. It is the Executive Branch’s call if the prisoner gets a trial in civilian court or military court. Even FDR tried and convicted the Germans caught on US soil after landing on Long Island and plotting to bomb the US, as “enemy combatants” in military courts, not civil courts as during a Declared State of War the President’s powers are expanded and even Habeus Corpus can be suspended, Abraham Lincoln suspended Habeus Corpus during the Civil War(as already stated,Bush decided to try the 1993 bombers in civil court). The Germans were tried, convicted and executed by the FDR administration even though caught on US soil. I only mention the various scenarios as an example of how the laws can be interpreted differently by circumstance and by President.
The reason conservatives and Republicans are up in arms is this;
-Attorney General Holder and the Obama administration are on record as viewing the war we are currently engaged in as a “criminal matter” not an actual war. Despite the repeated statements by our various enemies that they are indeed at war with the USA! Not to mention their success at plotting and successfully carrying out plots against the US and our allies around the globe.
-As recently as December our new Homeland Security chief, Janet Napolatano is on record as stating that acts of terrorism (war) are “man-made” disasters. Again, de-emphasizing the very idea that there are enemies plotting against us en masse and with a successful track record.
-The underwear bomber was plotting an act of war against innocent civilians including women and children, off US soil and under the guidance of an already known enemy organization, namely al quaeda.
-The underwear bomber was detained in international air space and not US soil. He should be tried in a military court and receive quick justice without the privilege of the entire US constitution and Miranda rights. He would have talked even faster at Guantanamo.
-Civilian trials cost a great deal (an estimated $200 million a year for the Khalid Sheik Mohammed case scheduled for lower Manhattan.
-Civilian trials leave American secrets exposed to grandstanding lawyers or worse, collusion with the enemy as shown in the case with the “Blind Sheik” whose lawyer knowingly and willingly passed on information from her client to our enemies.
That’s what we’re angry about.
…oh, have a nice weekend and don’t forget to watch the Olympics! 😉
Guess who just spent the better part of the late afternoon and evening in the pediatric emergency room due to a small, brown, slippery craft bead that was somehow wedged up the tiny nostril of her toddler? Yup. Sigh.
Cerveza por favor!
(me: “why did you do that?”
son: “I dunno! I wan-nhed tooo.”
The constitution grants to foreign nationals captured in the act of committing crimes on American territory. The FBI mirandized the underwear bomber after he stopped talking, not before. Had they not, whatever he said could not be used in a court of law. And again- this was done under the Bush Administration as well.
Re Holder: The Bush era DOJ claimed to have successfully prosecuted 300+ terrorism and terrorism related cases in criminal trials (not military tribunals). It was the standard practice under Bush. Why bash Obama and Holder for simply continuing the standard practice (and a seemingly successful one)?
Gem!!!!!! Where do you get pastured butter???!!!! I have been looking for it everywhere. The organic stuff usually isn’t pastured — it’s organic because they feed the cows organic feed.
At least I’m trying Rye tonight for the first time, get my mind off having to work Sat and Mon and in my ugly old clothes because it’s fashion week.
bxgrl,
The Bush administration sucessfully prosecuted dozens of foreign nationals caught in terrorist acts on US soil including the 1993 World Trade Center bombers. You admit that these were sucessful prosecutions (which we should remember the next time somebody says his presidency was a complete failure, but more on that later)and I do not disagree with the success of prosecuting foreign nationals caught in the act on US soil like the Buffalo conspirators or the Fort Dix conspirators or the Millennium plotters.
Foreign nationals acting as lone conspirators ON-US SOIL are given consitutional rights and this is established, foreign nationals are even given the right to challenge their imprisonment OFF-US soil(habeus corpus)through the Federal Court System as was established recently by the Supreme Court (which I feel is wrong but is now precedent) but that doesn’t mean that they all necessarily get an American trial! It provides for a Federal hearing on the validity of their detention (habeus corpus relates to unlawful imprisonment, it affords the right to request a determination on their imprisonment).
Then comes the complicated part, the laws governing Acts of War and the Geneva convention.
The radical Islamists and jihaadists that we are now facing are organized (if only in their hatred for the US and Israel) but not as a state, nor under a single flag, nor under a single uniform (in fact they make a point of not wearing a uniform in order to blend in with the innocent, not to mention that they target civilians including women and children);
thus they are not entitled to Geneva Convention rules and are not even given the recognition of “enemy soldiers” but only “enemy combatants”. The Bush administration chose to use the civil courts for many domestic cases as a matter of convenience.
Under the rules of war and the constitution “enemy combatants”, especially those caught on battlefields in another part of the world are treated as such and are subject to military law and tried by military tribunals or commissions. It is the Executive Branch’s call if the prisoner gets a trial in civilian court or military court. Even FDR tried and convicted the Germans caught on US soil after landing on Long Island and plotting to bomb the US, as “enemy combatants” in military courts, not civil courts as during a Declared State of War the President’s powers are expanded and even Habeus Corpus can be suspended, Abraham Lincoln suspended Habeus Corpus during the Civil War(as already stated,Bush decided to try the 1993 bombers in civil court). The Germans were tried, convicted and executed by the FDR administration even though caught on US soil. I only mention the various scenarios as an example of how the laws can be interpreted differently by circumstance and by President.
The reason conservatives and Republicans are up in arms is this;
-Attorney General Holder and the Obama administration are on record as viewing the war we are currently engaged in as a “criminal matter” not an actual war. Despite the repeated statements by our various enemies that they are indeed at war with the USA! Not to mention their success at plotting and successfully carrying out plots against the US and our allies around the globe.
-As recently as December our new Homeland Security chief, Janet Napolatano is on record as stating that acts of terrorism (war) are “man-made” disasters. Again, de-emphasizing the very idea that there are enemies plotting against us en masse and with a successful track record.
-The underwear bomber was plotting an act of war against innocent civilians including women and children, off US soil and under the guidance of an already known enemy organization, namely al quaeda.
-The underwear bomber was detained in international air space and not US soil. He should be tried in a military court and receive quick justice without the privilege of the entire US constitution and Miranda rights. He would have talked even faster at Guantanamo.
-Civilian trials cost a great deal (an estimated $200 million a year for the Khalid Sheik Mohammed case scheduled for lower Manhattan.
-Civilian trials leave American secrets exposed to grandstanding lawyers or worse, collusion with the enemy as shown in the case with the “Blind Sheik” whose lawyer knowingly and willingly passed on information from her client to our enemies.
That’s what we’re angry about.
…oh, have a nice weekend and don’t forget to watch the Olympics! 😉
Rye is good shit, Mopar. Get the meatloaf sammich. It’s da bomb.
Guess who just spent the better part of the late afternoon and evening in the pediatric emergency room due to a small, brown, slippery craft bead that was somehow wedged up the tiny nostril of her toddler? Yup. Sigh.
Cerveza por favor!
(me: “why did you do that?”
son: “I dunno! I wan-nhed tooo.”
The constitution grants to foreign nationals captured in the act of committing crimes on American territory. The FBI mirandized the underwear bomber after he stopped talking, not before. Had they not, whatever he said could not be used in a court of law. And again- this was done under the Bush Administration as well.
Re Holder: The Bush era DOJ claimed to have successfully prosecuted 300+ terrorism and terrorism related cases in criminal trials (not military tribunals). It was the standard practice under Bush. Why bash Obama and Holder for simply continuing the standard practice (and a seemingly successful one)?
eeeerrrrr fashion week is ruining my week.
Gem!!!!!! Where do you get pastured butter???!!!! I have been looking for it everywhere. The organic stuff usually isn’t pastured — it’s organic because they feed the cows organic feed.
At least I’m trying Rye tonight for the first time, get my mind off having to work Sat and Mon and in my ugly old clothes because it’s fashion week.
“Somehow I never get a chance to have a long chat with you at these meet-ups. Next time, that’s my #1 priority.”
Benson, I had the same exact thought last night when I saw you were leaving!! Next time, or we’ll make a date and meet for drinks or coffee. [No homo]
Have a good weekend, benson.
Yes, it was great to see you last night and thanks for the drink.
that is scary snappy. is she ok?
*rob*