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bxgrl,
I will refer you once again to the actual facts of the situation.
There is no “crisis” in healthcare at this time except for the fact that it is rife with fraud and abuse. For the most part, people who are sick get treated. In NYC it is the LAW!
If you are sick, you walk into the ER, you get treated, NO QUESTIONS ASKED! In fact, this is why California’s healthcare system is now going bankrupt, people who are not insured and not citizens of this nation have placed an excessive burden on the system.
I will repeat the facts:
of the 47 million “uninsured”
-20 million are at double or more of the income level of the federal guidelines to receive medicaid benefits. That is, they can BUY insurance if they choose to.
-9 million are persons already insured under the current medicaid system.
-7 million are persons that are citizens of another sovereign nation.
-3.5 million are people that would qualify for one of the current programs if they would take the time to sign up.
That leaves approximately 7-10 million actually uninsured.
Why would we re-invent the wheel and 1/5 of our economy to accomodate 7-10 million? simply work within the system and improve the current system. The system that provides the highest level of healthcare in the world.
As far as the agenda behind all this, you need only look into the name Saul Aulinsky to understand that President Obama is an avowed neo-marxist, he truly believes in re-distribution of wealth, just as Reagan truly believed in trickle-down economics. Reagan’s model has been proven to work, Obama’s model has been proven to fail. That’s the difference. Not saying President Obama is a bad man, just on the wrong side of history and historical economic fact.
As far as your idea that Republicans stand for racism, violence and naziism, I will again refer to the facts:
The party of Lincoln was founded on the ideas of abolition of slavery. Lincoln was a Republican, as was Harriet Tubman, as was Frederick Douglas, as was Soujourner Truth, as were the first Black American Senators.
For 100 years after slavery was ended, the Republican party fought for civil rights, from the amendments in the 1860’s to the civil rights acts in the 1960’s, Republicans stood side by side with the disenfranchised in America to fight for equality. At every step of the way, the Democrats fought against civil rights. This is history if you cafe to look it up. The Democrats fought against voting rights in the 1860’s, the Democrats started the KKK as a response to the new rights of Black Americans in the South. the Democrats wrote the Jim Crow laws after taking over the House, Senate and Presidency in the 1890’s. This Democratic obstruction to civil righs continued with the Wilson administration (he was a southern democrat) as he de-segrated the federal governement. In the early 1960’s, when schools were being desegrated, those were Democratic Governors standing in the way of progress, people like Lester Maddox. That was a Democratic official aiming fire hoses and letting loose vicious dogs on Black Americans, look up the name “Bull” Connor if you don’t believe me. It took Nixon and his affirmative action program to redress that wrong done by Wilson. Reagan signed MLK day into a national holiday, MLK himself was a repubican early on, just ask his niece Dr. Alveda King who is to this day a Republican.
By the way, the NAACP was started by Black Republicans.
bxgrl, you seriously have to read up on the history of the Democratic party if you believe what you say about the Republican party.
bxgrl,
Not going to get into the main debate here because it seems to have gone beyond the rational on both sides.
Just one factual point – Halliburton is still a US company for tax purposes. They moved some executives (including the CEO) to Dubai to try to improve their international business, which has historically been weaker than some of their peers. The company is a Delaware corporation and its corporate HQ is in Houston. Also, the division that provided government services in Iraq was spun off into a separate company, called KBR, a couple of years ago. Profits from the Iraq contracts were never very good. Halliburton’s main business is (and always has been) oilfield servcies and KBR’s main business is designing and building gas liquefaction plants, refineries etc.
Not saying anything about whether they are good or bad people, just clarifying.
I don’t wonder that people are angry at town hall meetings. I’m appalled that they are angry because they are fed false information, hounded by fearmongers and outright lied to by the right wing. Obama wants reform. We need reform- yet the right cares far more about money than lives. They’re willing to watch people die or live lives of misery as long as insurers and big corporations make money. You’re worried about 47 million people getting insured and suddenly rushing the system? I have news for you- the uninsured are rushing the system now and overwhelming it with unpaid bills and needing more expensive treatments for conditions they couldn’t get help for and are now life threatening.
The majority of uninsured are working taxpayers- not illegal immigrants (by the way who also work, for the most part and even pay taxes). People who have worked for years, paid into the system and can’t afford it. 47 million taxpayers is a lot of money. What kind of return do I get for my tax buck? Not much- but Bruce Ratner gets it. So does Halliburton. Alaska got a Bridge to Nowhere and thousands of cities across the US got Homeland Security funds – places no one would attack- while NYC got proportionately very little. Especially considering we are a prime target. After wasting billions in an unneccessary Iraq war Republicans have the gall to talk about spending money on health care for citizens?(And don’t yo get me started on Halliburton moving to Dubai to avoid paying American taxes).
I see Obama wanting to get legislation passed- but “dead set” on this particular bill? Hardly. Tort reform? Take that up with lawyers- don’t make sick people suffer over sharks who earn 350.00 + an hour.
I have not denied anything. I don’t know what race you belong to but you’re in serious denial if you don’t see the overt racism the Right is spewing everywhere. I realize this is a technique of the right- to make up something and throw it out there as if it’s the truth. You claim Obama has an agenda? Pray tell what is it? Then lay out the Republican agenda which at this point includes racism, violence, Nazism and the disruption of a duly elected government. It doesn’t get more unamerican than that. In fact its a lot like terrorism.
Here is the problem. You categorically deny the possibility that Obama and his administration have another agenda in mind besides healthcare reform.
Looking at the problem objectively, you will notice that President Obama wanted this “healthcare reform” passed yesterday. Without anyone reading the details of the thousand page bill.
WHY?
Does this not bother you?
Looking at the problem objectively, you will also notice that President Obama wanted this “healthcare reform” passed without any mention of TORT reform. Speak to ANY doctor, and they will tell you this, as I am, YOU CANNOT HAVE SERIOUS HEALTHCARE REFORM WITHOUT TORT REFORM!.
WHY wouldn’t the President include this in his reform if he were truly serious about changing healthcare in America?
Does this not bother you?
I will not even get into the ideas of his healthcare advisory team and the inevitablility of rationing healthcare.
I will not even get into the implications of insuring 10 million(out of the “47 million”) persons that are not citizens of this nation but of another sovereign nation.
I will not even get into the cost of this “reform” which has been estimated by the congressional budget office to increase healthcare costs overall in the long run and add 1-2 trillion we don’t have to our national debt.
I will not even get into the fact that the bill that he wanted to pass did nothing to address the fact that there would be no proportional increase in healthcare professionals (i.e. Doctors, Nurses, Techs.) to handle the sudden weight of 47 million “uninsured”.
I will not even get into the fact that these types of plans have already failed in the state of Mass. and have been found severely wanting in other nations like the UK.
Suffice it to say, you need only ask yourself this question;
Why was President Obama so dead set in passing a 1000 page piece of legislation, which he himself didn’t oversee (Pelosi did), which would fundamentally overhall the highest standard of care in the world and approximately 1/5 of our economy, without having thoroughly debated the merits of the entire bill?
and you wonder why people are angry at town hall meetings. Don’t even get on the race thing, remember I am not even white myself.
CG, cuz of facebook i got reunited with my 1/2 bro and 1/2 sis. they found me on facebook. they are 18 and 19.never met them before. totally weird, but awesome, as i dont have much family.
Oh I know- but its so offensive because it is so inaccurate in this case. Bush and cronies did indeed trample on civil rights- Obama? Since when is reform Hitlerian? (answer: When you’re a right wing whack job). Not referring to you or benson fyi 🙂
bxgrl,
I will refer you once again to the actual facts of the situation.
There is no “crisis” in healthcare at this time except for the fact that it is rife with fraud and abuse. For the most part, people who are sick get treated. In NYC it is the LAW!
If you are sick, you walk into the ER, you get treated, NO QUESTIONS ASKED! In fact, this is why California’s healthcare system is now going bankrupt, people who are not insured and not citizens of this nation have placed an excessive burden on the system.
I will repeat the facts:
of the 47 million “uninsured”
-20 million are at double or more of the income level of the federal guidelines to receive medicaid benefits. That is, they can BUY insurance if they choose to.
-9 million are persons already insured under the current medicaid system.
-7 million are persons that are citizens of another sovereign nation.
-3.5 million are people that would qualify for one of the current programs if they would take the time to sign up.
That leaves approximately 7-10 million actually uninsured.
Why would we re-invent the wheel and 1/5 of our economy to accomodate 7-10 million? simply work within the system and improve the current system. The system that provides the highest level of healthcare in the world.
As far as the agenda behind all this, you need only look into the name Saul Aulinsky to understand that President Obama is an avowed neo-marxist, he truly believes in re-distribution of wealth, just as Reagan truly believed in trickle-down economics. Reagan’s model has been proven to work, Obama’s model has been proven to fail. That’s the difference. Not saying President Obama is a bad man, just on the wrong side of history and historical economic fact.
As far as your idea that Republicans stand for racism, violence and naziism, I will again refer to the facts:
The party of Lincoln was founded on the ideas of abolition of slavery. Lincoln was a Republican, as was Harriet Tubman, as was Frederick Douglas, as was Soujourner Truth, as were the first Black American Senators.
For 100 years after slavery was ended, the Republican party fought for civil rights, from the amendments in the 1860’s to the civil rights acts in the 1960’s, Republicans stood side by side with the disenfranchised in America to fight for equality. At every step of the way, the Democrats fought against civil rights. This is history if you cafe to look it up. The Democrats fought against voting rights in the 1860’s, the Democrats started the KKK as a response to the new rights of Black Americans in the South. the Democrats wrote the Jim Crow laws after taking over the House, Senate and Presidency in the 1890’s. This Democratic obstruction to civil righs continued with the Wilson administration (he was a southern democrat) as he de-segrated the federal governement. In the early 1960’s, when schools were being desegrated, those were Democratic Governors standing in the way of progress, people like Lester Maddox. That was a Democratic official aiming fire hoses and letting loose vicious dogs on Black Americans, look up the name “Bull” Connor if you don’t believe me. It took Nixon and his affirmative action program to redress that wrong done by Wilson. Reagan signed MLK day into a national holiday, MLK himself was a repubican early on, just ask his niece Dr. Alveda King who is to this day a Republican.
By the way, the NAACP was started by Black Republicans.
bxgrl, you seriously have to read up on the history of the Democratic party if you believe what you say about the Republican party.
bxgrl,
Not going to get into the main debate here because it seems to have gone beyond the rational on both sides.
Just one factual point – Halliburton is still a US company for tax purposes. They moved some executives (including the CEO) to Dubai to try to improve their international business, which has historically been weaker than some of their peers. The company is a Delaware corporation and its corporate HQ is in Houston. Also, the division that provided government services in Iraq was spun off into a separate company, called KBR, a couple of years ago. Profits from the Iraq contracts were never very good. Halliburton’s main business is (and always has been) oilfield servcies and KBR’s main business is designing and building gas liquefaction plants, refineries etc.
Not saying anything about whether they are good or bad people, just clarifying.
I don’t wonder that people are angry at town hall meetings. I’m appalled that they are angry because they are fed false information, hounded by fearmongers and outright lied to by the right wing. Obama wants reform. We need reform- yet the right cares far more about money than lives. They’re willing to watch people die or live lives of misery as long as insurers and big corporations make money. You’re worried about 47 million people getting insured and suddenly rushing the system? I have news for you- the uninsured are rushing the system now and overwhelming it with unpaid bills and needing more expensive treatments for conditions they couldn’t get help for and are now life threatening.
The majority of uninsured are working taxpayers- not illegal immigrants (by the way who also work, for the most part and even pay taxes). People who have worked for years, paid into the system and can’t afford it. 47 million taxpayers is a lot of money. What kind of return do I get for my tax buck? Not much- but Bruce Ratner gets it. So does Halliburton. Alaska got a Bridge to Nowhere and thousands of cities across the US got Homeland Security funds – places no one would attack- while NYC got proportionately very little. Especially considering we are a prime target. After wasting billions in an unneccessary Iraq war Republicans have the gall to talk about spending money on health care for citizens?(And don’t yo get me started on Halliburton moving to Dubai to avoid paying American taxes).
I see Obama wanting to get legislation passed- but “dead set” on this particular bill? Hardly. Tort reform? Take that up with lawyers- don’t make sick people suffer over sharks who earn 350.00 + an hour.
I have not denied anything. I don’t know what race you belong to but you’re in serious denial if you don’t see the overt racism the Right is spewing everywhere. I realize this is a technique of the right- to make up something and throw it out there as if it’s the truth. You claim Obama has an agenda? Pray tell what is it? Then lay out the Republican agenda which at this point includes racism, violence, Nazism and the disruption of a duly elected government. It doesn’t get more unamerican than that. In fact its a lot like terrorism.
bxgrl,
Here is the problem. You categorically deny the possibility that Obama and his administration have another agenda in mind besides healthcare reform.
Looking at the problem objectively, you will notice that President Obama wanted this “healthcare reform” passed yesterday. Without anyone reading the details of the thousand page bill.
WHY?
Does this not bother you?
Looking at the problem objectively, you will also notice that President Obama wanted this “healthcare reform” passed without any mention of TORT reform. Speak to ANY doctor, and they will tell you this, as I am, YOU CANNOT HAVE SERIOUS HEALTHCARE REFORM WITHOUT TORT REFORM!.
WHY wouldn’t the President include this in his reform if he were truly serious about changing healthcare in America?
Does this not bother you?
I will not even get into the ideas of his healthcare advisory team and the inevitablility of rationing healthcare.
I will not even get into the implications of insuring 10 million(out of the “47 million”) persons that are not citizens of this nation but of another sovereign nation.
I will not even get into the cost of this “reform” which has been estimated by the congressional budget office to increase healthcare costs overall in the long run and add 1-2 trillion we don’t have to our national debt.
I will not even get into the fact that the bill that he wanted to pass did nothing to address the fact that there would be no proportional increase in healthcare professionals (i.e. Doctors, Nurses, Techs.) to handle the sudden weight of 47 million “uninsured”.
I will not even get into the fact that these types of plans have already failed in the state of Mass. and have been found severely wanting in other nations like the UK.
Suffice it to say, you need only ask yourself this question;
Why was President Obama so dead set in passing a 1000 page piece of legislation, which he himself didn’t oversee (Pelosi did), which would fundamentally overhall the highest standard of care in the world and approximately 1/5 of our economy, without having thoroughly debated the merits of the entire bill?
and you wonder why people are angry at town hall meetings. Don’t even get on the race thing, remember I am not even white myself.
CG, cuz of facebook i got reunited with my 1/2 bro and 1/2 sis. they found me on facebook. they are 18 and 19.never met them before. totally weird, but awesome, as i dont have much family.
*rob*
Oh I know- but its so offensive because it is so inaccurate in this case. Bush and cronies did indeed trample on civil rights- Obama? Since when is reform Hitlerian? (answer: When you’re a right wing whack job). Not referring to you or benson fyi 🙂
Bxgrl, equating Presidents with Hitler is an old trick:
http://dissidentvoice.org/Articles3/Jayne_Hitler-Bush.htm
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Crete/3450/topten.html
Of course, it’s just a real-life version of:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law
later asshats – TV on the Radio time.
benson- I think if you’re seeing old girlfriends we need to speak to a cybermarriage counselor 🙁