Noise Annoys, Rugrat Edition
The most frequent noise complaint real estate lawyer Stuart Saft hears nowadays concerns kids. “Fifteen years ago or so, it used to be that the noise complaints were all about loud stereo and TV equipment,” Saft is quoted as saying in a Times story about the pitter patter of tiny feet driving neighbors crazy. “Now…
The most frequent noise complaint real estate lawyer Stuart Saft hears nowadays concerns kids. “Fifteen years ago or so, it used to be that the noise complaints were all about loud stereo and TV equipment,” Saft is quoted as saying in a Times story about the pitter patter of tiny feet driving neighbors crazy. “Now it’s kid noise more than anything else, and I think it demonstrates the changing demographic of the city. You have more kids living in the apartment buildings, and parents who feel their children have the right to be children.” The story focuses on people like a Slope couple with two kids who try to keep their children from running around before 8 a.m. because their downstairs neighbor finds the tots’ noise “exhausting. Even my boyfriend doesn’t ever want to come over — it’s so horrible.” Another Slope mom says she “probably tried a little too hard” to keep her kids quiet and not upset neighbors when, at the end of the day, “They were not doing anything outrageous. They were just doing normal kid things. But small children, especially toddlers, have this clumsy flatfooted walk. It’s impossible to control.” The article says noise carries in a lot of prewar construction, especially in smaller buildings, and when apartments are renovated or combined, the end result is often the loss of some insulation. Some co-op boards install sound meters in apartments to determine if neighbors’ complaints are warranted, though the most frequent solution appears to also the most time-trusted when it comes to New Yorkers and their tight quarters: Compromise. “We do indeed walk on eggshells, and I find myself on tiptoes if I have high heels on, even when I’m not home,” says another Brooklyn parent.“I’m a trained monkey. But my 19-month-old is not.”
The Noise Children Make [NY Times]
Photo by Joey Harrison.
I agree with you 12:57.
While I recognize that some people were never taught to be considerate, and then have no clue about how to teach their kids this, what baffles me is people who WERE taught to be considerate who refuse to teach this to their kids.
There is some wierd notion of parenting out there now that they have picked up which makes them want to let their kids express themselves however they want. (There are some things my parents did that were horrible that I would never advise anyone to do to kids, but I do recognize what they did right in teaching us.)
I think parents get their parenting ideas from other parents. When I comment on kids behavior to friends with kids, they reply that all the other parents they know are find with it, as if that makes inconsiderate behavior OK. Didn’t their mothers tell them the old “if everyone else were to go jump in the lake would you follow…” What happened to setting your own independent standards? A polite kid is truly unusual and stands out in some playgrounds I’ve been to with friends….
12:57 – while I am sure you anecdote happened to someone, somewhere – you (and all these other self-righteous a$$es) are simply using infrequent anomalies to promote your anti-everything (that isnt ghetto, old or otherwise ‘cool’) agenda.
I dare you or your ilk to post, find or record a single video of any such behavior being demonstrated with the parents doing nothing to try to stop it.
This is the You-Tube age so, video or it didnt happen.
12:57
No, jackhammers are not as annoying as loud and constant and intermittent “thuds” from hard walking feet.
The people that complain about noise are ridiculous if they own. If I have enough to spend around $1 million, I have enough to spend on soundproofing. But, luckily I had enough know how to do it myself. If you ever put up a wall, then you can do this on your own. The only thing is it will take a few weeks as opposed to a couple days if you hire. But, you will save $30,000.
Lets see according to the Brownstoner/Dr. Spock handbook – Parents are self-absorbed, entitled jerks if their children
Dare use a stroller the minute they are capable of walking.
Their children dare make any noise that disturbs their neighbors
Take their children to a restaurant or other retail establishment and they exhibit any behavior that is even noticed by others
– I am sure that I am missing some things but even with the above list – it seems that essentially according to the brownstoner wisdom – having children at all = you are a jerk.
I am fine with that BTW – please however remit all future Social Security, Medicare or other such ‘ENTITLEMENTS’ back to the ‘children’ who will be working to support you.
and 12:48 – you are an idiot – the vast majority of families in NYC (and most other urban areas) contribute nothing to global population growth – in fact the level of childbirths wouldnt even sustain the population.
Pre-war, wood-floored buildings are very noisy. You have to do your own sound-proofing.
Old fire-proof buildings like the old factories in DUMBO were built solid as a rock. You cannot hear anything through the floors in those concrete-floored buildings.
But if you open a window the roar from every major highway in Brooklyn will waft in.
12:48 – you’re offbase – I moved to brownstone brooklyn at the beginning of the 80’s and the gentrification that had already been going on for quite awhile then proceeded to take off with the conversion of lots and lots of rental buildings (brownstone and larger) to coops.
I grew up in a rural area and we were not allowed to run and jump in our house. There were indoor activities and outdoors ones. We were not allowed to yell inside either. We didn’t wear shoes in the house, either. My husband had the same upbringing- we both grew up in detached houses with lots of land so it wasn’t about disturbing anybody else. It seems our parents had the crazy idea that if we taught to behave properly indoors at home that we’d behave in a way that doesn’t disturb others in more public settings like stores, restaurants and church.
I see kids practically climbing the walls and running table to table at restaurants, pulling stuff off shelves at stores and the parents say nothing. I think it has everything to do with the fact that these kids are allowed to behave as they please at home. They don’t respect anything because they aren’t being taught anything by parents who don’t respect anyone else.
Lest you think our “creativity” and ability to “express ourselves” was compromised by our upbringing, I can tell you that we’ve both been working in creative fields for 15-20 yrs after going to design school. Kids would be able to survive in the world better if taught enough manners to make them aware of others. In the end, that respect of others will make them pleasant to be around and easy to work with. It’s the best lesson any parent can teach and it starts AT HOME.
The parts of this article about actual construction are pretty interesting. But I think people need to get some common sense.
If you don’t want carpet, get some of those foam pad things and line your kid’s room with them. If you live above someone who’s too noisy, put acoustic tile on your ceiling. (They make some that looks like tin ceiling tiles that’s actually pretty nice.) If you know noise is going to bother you, don’t move into a converted brownstone, as anything built as a single-family is never going to be as noise-abated as a real apartment building.
But you know what’s REALLY annoying? Jackhammers. Jackhammers that start at 7AM. Try living next to that and you’ll never whine about kids again.
The issue is NOT developers being cheap (we’re talking about prewar buildings here) it IS about kids being loud–and self-righteous breeders not parenting.They need to teach their kids to be considerate of others–an impossible task seeing as the “parents” never learned it themselves.