Noise Annoys, Rugrat Edition
The most frequent noise complaint real estate lawyer Stuart Saft hears nowadays concerns kids. “Fifteen years ago or so, it used to be that the noise complaints were all about loud stereo and TV equipment,” Saft is quoted as saying in a Times story about the pitter patter of tiny feet driving neighbors crazy. “Now…
The most frequent noise complaint real estate lawyer Stuart Saft hears nowadays concerns kids. “Fifteen years ago or so, it used to be that the noise complaints were all about loud stereo and TV equipment,” Saft is quoted as saying in a Times story about the pitter patter of tiny feet driving neighbors crazy. “Now it’s kid noise more than anything else, and I think it demonstrates the changing demographic of the city. You have more kids living in the apartment buildings, and parents who feel their children have the right to be children.” The story focuses on people like a Slope couple with two kids who try to keep their children from running around before 8 a.m. because their downstairs neighbor finds the tots’ noise “exhausting. Even my boyfriend doesn’t ever want to come over — it’s so horrible.” Another Slope mom says she “probably tried a little too hard” to keep her kids quiet and not upset neighbors when, at the end of the day, “They were not doing anything outrageous. They were just doing normal kid things. But small children, especially toddlers, have this clumsy flatfooted walk. It’s impossible to control.” The article says noise carries in a lot of prewar construction, especially in smaller buildings, and when apartments are renovated or combined, the end result is often the loss of some insulation. Some co-op boards install sound meters in apartments to determine if neighbors’ complaints are warranted, though the most frequent solution appears to also the most time-trusted when it comes to New Yorkers and their tight quarters: Compromise. “We do indeed walk on eggshells, and I find myself on tiptoes if I have high heels on, even when I’m not home,” says another Brooklyn parent.“I’m a trained monkey. But my 19-month-old is not.”
The Noise Children Make [NY Times]
Photo by Joey Harrison.
10:11 and 10:28 nailed. Its about parents who do not properly discipline their children and an overall sense of entitlement. Sam thing that stokes the anti-ps threads.
10:18: I’m 10:11…As I said in my post, I turned out fine. I didn’t have a deprived childhood because I wasn’t allowed to do certain things or because I was raised with a certain type of discipline. That’s plain silly to even think that way. I played outside on the sidewalk, like all of us kids did at the time, or played hop-scotch or stoop ball in friend’s front yards…whose parents were fortunate enough to own their homes. I had a great childhood and cherish the memories.
I see these young mothers with one or two little ones in tow, walking here, walking there, carrying, cajouling, looking exasperated and tired.
It seems to me that their counterparts in the burbs have it easier. You strap the kids into the SUV and you’re off and away. At home, they can yell and stomp to their hearts delight in the backyard or the basement. Raising kids in the city, especially with today’s prices and over-crowding, is a little insane. I hope that we are experiencing just a trend and that in another few years the younger parents will get a clue and move somewhere cheaper, roomier, and more kid-friendly. A brownstone is OK as long as you have the whole thing, but trying to raise kids after the age of two or three in an apartment sucks, especially a walk-up apartment!
11:05 again…I meant to also add that of course it’s important for parents to teach consideration to their kids as early as possible. It should be common sense not to let your kids scream, jump up and down, and play hallway soccer at 6:30 am. I’m pretty sure I knew better than to make much noise before 8 am in our tigh-packed apartment building. But there are some people who really have a sense of entitlement about so many things, and believe that all things can be controlled. Beyond a certain level of consideration, you just can’t expect too much from toddlers.
One very simple solution to apartment noise: remove your shoes upon entering your home. It cuts way back on noise, and in addition, your house will be much cleaner.
These are the problems of common people living in condos and coops. Grow up and buy yourself a real house. Problem solved.
I agree with 10:28, except that… the examples from the article were mainly of parents who DID take considerate measures like limiting the kids’ activity and putting down floor coverings, yet STILL got complaints from the downstairs neighbors.
Consideration is a two-way street. It also requires acknowledging that if you live in a densely populated city, other people (inculding kids) will inconvenience you.
The issue IS NOT kids being loud, IT’S about developers being cheap and inconsiderate by using the lowest of the low materials in order to meet code for buildings.
Using party walls made of metal studs and one layer of sheetrock or if you’re lucky two layers of sheetrock (which is still crap) instead of using masonry and then party walls on either side. Using 1/8″ cork underlayment under the hardwood floors instead of flooting the floor a couple inches off the concrete floors or using 1/2″ rubber mats and 3/4″ “SoundEater” underlayments and then putting the woodfloors on top. Also, finishing the ceilings and using mineral wool between bats and using 50 year chalk or (green glue if you want to spend more money for the samething) when layering sheetrock.
People will buy it if the stupid developers would build it, especially in 2bed/2bath or bigger units meant for families. Hell, what is an extra $60,000 or even an extra $120,000 on a condo that already costs $1.4 million?
Don’t blame the kids, it’s the cheap ass developers and the cheap ass, no talent construction company.
What I found strange about this article was the assertion that there are somehow more children in New York City than there used to be. Really? How is that possible? Families have always lived here. I grew up in a 15-story building in upper Manhattan, surrounded by other families on all sides, and we knew everything that was going on above and below us. We knew when the boys downstairs learned to walk, and when the older one developed a taste for Metallica. We knew the precise moment when the man upstairs from us lost his mind, due either to his divorce or to his drinking, we weren’t sure. His bedroom was right above mine, and no amount of padding could muffle his late-night ranting and drunken, bitter cackling. Later, his college-age son moved in and put his speakers on the floor. His favorite album was the Dirty Dancing soundtrack. This really interfered with my SAT prep.
What I’m getting at here is that if you choose to live in stacked boxes with many other people, you’re going to hear their noises. Sex, fighting, babies crying, toddlers stomping around (because really, they can’t help it, it’s true – they can only “help it” after about age 3 or 4), drunken ranting, teenage sparring, etcetera. What I felt from some of the commenters in this article was a sense of entitlement that is extremely distasteful. This is a city. Generations of people live here. People used to be even more crowded together here – swing by the Tenement Museum sometime for a sense of perspective. People who grew up here seem to be a lot more tolerant in general than newcomers, who seem to feel that life in the city should revolve around them, and should conform to their fantasies about Life In The Big Apple. I just wanted to tell some of those people to get over themselves. And I hope others will be more tolerant towards them when they have children, who are not predictable or controllable little creatures, especially when very small.
I don’t have kids yet. But I like hearing them running around above me, because it gives a comforting sense of life all around. What I don’t like are leafblowers (tons of them on my Brooklyn block! What is this, Jersey?!), ice cream truck jingles, idling Access-A-Ride vehicles, and the goddamned weedwhacker that someone’s been wielding across the street from me for, I kid you not, the past hour. Those things are disruptive. Kids are just kids.
10:11
A-freakin-men. I too remember having limits set as a kid. Perhaps you should consider giving parenting classes in the Slope. Seriously.