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One of the concerns some Carroll Gardens residents had about the controversial Hoyt Street oyster bar, whose application for a liquor license was hotly debated at Community Board 6 this Spring, is that it’s near both a school and a church. Opponents of the business said the bar shouldn’t be granted a liquor license because by some measures it’s within 200 feet of a church, which would mean the State Liquor Authority couldn’t give it the green light. The brouhaha no doubt influenced bills that’ve been introduced in both the Senate and Assembly to close a “liquor license loophole” under which bar owners move the door of their establishments so the entrance isn’t within 200 feet of a house of worship or a school. Assemblywoman Joan Millman, who represents the district that includes Carroll Gardens, intro’d the bill in the State Assembly. This change would not cost the state a dime, but it certainly would benefit our neighborhoods immensely, said Millman in a statement (copy on jump). I have introduced this bill largely in response to community input that we close this loophole. Paul Nelson, Millman’s spokesperson, said that problems with business owners exploiting the loophole aren’t particular to Carroll Gardens, but it’s become a bigger concern for residents as the neighborhood transforms into “more of a destination area for bars.”
Shucks! Oyster Bar Dredges Up Controversy [Brownstoner]
Photo by ‘Mr. History.

Assemblywoman Joan Millman has introduced legislation to close a loophole which allows establishments applying for liquor licenses that are located within 200 feet of a school, church, synagogue or other place of worship to evade the 200 foot rule by moving the entrance of their establishment. The 200 foot rule prevents an establishment from receiving a liquor license from the New York State Liquor Authority (SLA) if the entrance to the establishment lies within 200 feet of a school, church, synagogue or other places of worship.

In response to this growing problem, as well as numerous complaints by residents of quiet, residential streets, Assemblywoman Millman has introduced Assembly Bill 11364. This bill would amend the SLA’s standards in relation to the 200 foot rule between a liquor establishment and a school, church, synagogue or place of worship from measuring between entryways to measuring between the closest property line of the liquor establishment and the entryway of the school, church, synagogue or other place of worship. Too often, a bar simply moves its entryway so that it is compliant with the letter of the law; however, the spirit of this law is to prevent bars from being too close to a school, church, synagogue or other place of worship.

This change would not cost the state a dime, but it certainly would benefit our neighborhoods immensely, Millman stated. I have introduced this bill largely in response to community input that we close this loophole.


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  1. On the face of it, some people might think changing this to avoid a “loophole” is a good idea. However if you change it so “any part of the bar” being within 200 feet would be very bad. What if the back of your bar was now within 200 feet of a church on the other side of the block. The point is that the entrance should be far enough away to keep the undesireable element from children/places of worship. Who cares if the inside is close to a school.

  2. “The church I go to uses wine as part of its liturgical ritual. Ironic that no wine store can open nearby. Americans are so retarded sometimes.”

    This is in no way an American phenomenon. Have you tried to buy anything in Europe or many other places in the world on a Sunday? Everything shuts down.

  3. Yeah, but 11:21, that has nothing to do with the fact that there is a church down the street. Maybe a hard look at the regulations is needed rather than this kind of silly tweaking. In the meantime, I suggest a few of us go over to Millman’s office with *urp* one of those new Heineken mini-kegs and chat up the Assemblywoman. I’m sure, deep down, she’s a super-freak.

  4. P.S. – Once an area become the nightlife zone – other businesses that cater to day-to-day life of residents (including of many of the ‘mom and pops’ many here seem so enamared of ) get squeezed out by higher rents alcohol serving establishments can pay.
    So neighborhood conveniences also decline.
    And I’m not about to move to the suburbs – it is the bar flies that evenutally do – once they ‘settle down’, grow up a bit, and move back to their roots.

  5. If any of you personally knew the block in question, Hoyt between Union & Sackett, you would know that it is a a relatively short block with a very narrow street with very narrow sidewalks…not at all a wide street like Smith or Court. Any noise (and there WILL be noise) emanating from the oyster bar, especially late at night, would be way too loud for such a small residential block. And I’m sure you all know that the more people drink, the louder they get…witness the Gowanus Yacht Club (I live on President, so I’ve experienced it). I’m no prude…you may all be night owls, but other people have to get to work early in the morning. Be honest, it’s really not an appropriate location for a bar. There’s plenty of room on Smith & Court with frequent turnover of restaurants and other retail establishments.

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