Community Airs Qualms About Bar Near Barclays

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Last night the proprietors of Midtown restaurant Social Eatz came before CB6 to apply for two liquor licenses at 604 Pacific Street, across the street from the forthcoming Barclays Center, and many at the meeting weren’t thrilled by the proposed establishment. What’s planned: A gastropub occupying 3,500 square feet that seats 150 people, with two bars, some live music and no outdoor space. Meanwhile, Italian and Middle Eastern restaurants are slated for a smaller section of the space. Neighbors voiced a great deal of concern about the proposal in a fashion that was reminiscent of the outcry surrounding plans for Prime Six. One speaker said, “You’re going to be opening a restaurant for the arena, and the neighborhood surrounding you doesn’t want this arena.” Other residents of Pacific Street said they didn’t want the street to return to the way it was 30 years ago. One resident stood up and read a selection of newspaper headlines that associated sports bars with violence. In the end, the community board’s consideration of the proposal was pushed back to next month. A community meeting with the restaurant owners will be set up in the interim. (The photo above shows 602 Pacific in the foreground, which the owners say will be used to house some of the business, though the bulk of the space for the bars and restaurants will be in the furniture store pictured to its left.) Atlantic Yards Report has a detailed post on the plans and the crowd’s reaction at last night’s meeting. GMAP

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  • That stretch looks so wonderful as it is in the pic. Why change anything?

  • Lol DIBS. Seriously. What are people protecting here, exactly?

  • I’m opposed to anything that’s new, unless it’s something that will benefit me directly.

  • Dirty shuttered buildings are clearly superior to active business.

    Or perhaps all the haters are upset to see that claims that the arena will spur additional economic development in the area are true.

  • i’ve never seen violence in a sports bar. i have however seen moonfaces get into slap happy catfights when one thinks the other stole their cocaine.

    *rob*

  • Rob – that sounds fabricated. MFs are all about non-violence.

  • quote:
    Rob – that sounds fabricated. MFs are all about non-violence.

    later on today ill do a search on youtube for moonface fights and post the best ones. they are pretty hysterical, tragic really.

    *rob*

  • Social Eatz is Angelo from Top Chef’s place. This dude does not conjure up images of sports bars and bar fights.

  • An arena will need these sorts of establishments. This is one battle the local residents are likely to lose.

  • Perhaps the locals are just waiting for Ratner to pay them to drop their principled stand.

  • Yes this type of establishment comes with urban arenas. There are going to be many of these type places opening up. Why did this arena have to go here?

  • The only thing offensive about this place is that they’re calling it a “gastro pub.” I hate that term; it makes me think about what happens the morning after I’ve been at a pub all night, eating wings and nachos, drinking Radeberger, assaulting people.

  • “”You’re going to be opening a restaurant for the arena, and the neighborhood surrounding you doesn’t want this arena.””

    lmao @ giving angelo from top chef a hard time about opening a place.

  • the atlantic yards battle v2.0

    be against anything that could be remotely linked to serving the “arena crowd”

    NIMBY shit.

  • quote:
    Why did this arena have to go here?

    people said the same thing about the brooklyn flea. i dont see how either of these establishments are all that different. i guess you can say one will have more traffic, but dont people have to transport their flea market stuff? im glad it’s coming. i plan to get a partime weekend or night job at the arena.

    *rob*

  • I remember when the bagel shop near the arena tried to call their place “Arena Bagels” and the angry mob with torches and pitchforks convinced them to change it. That small victory has given them a false sense of confidence, It’s not going to happen at this level.

  • These NIMBY’s are like the NYC version of town-hall teabaggers.

    Sorry people but going to every community event and acting like a stuck-up racist isn’t a hobby.

    I was at 200 Fifth last night to watch some hockey and there was no violence despite the *gasp* minorities watching *gasp* sports!

  • “I was at 200 Fifth last night to watch some hockey and there was no violence despite the *gasp* minorities watching *gasp* sports!”

    You sound like as big an idiot as the NIMBYs.

  • I just can’t wait for the first strip club to open up. It’s coming and would be a great investment.

  • “An arena will need these sorts of establishments. This is one battle the local residents are likely to lose.”
    Wasder – What’s a battle they’ve won?

  • strippers gotta eat and pay their rent too you know!

    *rob*

  • My guess is that if any strip clubs open due to the arena, they will be in Gowanus.

  • Right next to Vinnies Styles one of the few clothing stores in the area to open multiple locations within blocks of each other.

  • I love the undercover strippers who try to recruit customers at Stan’s near Yankee stadium. Can’t wait for Fort Greene wine bars to get their own stripcruiters.

  • DIBS, those stores were rented for many years. It was definitely not an abandoned area. I’m sure the businesses there (including a big furniture store) were evicted-by-rent-increase. That’s why they are empty now.

  • So whom are you blaming it on, rf? Sounds like the landlords. And I doubt “evicted” is the right term.

  • Dave, I’m not blaming anything on anyone. Just saying that that’s a very viable retail location–across the street from Atlantic Center/Terminal malls, subways, buses, etc. That block doesn’t need a sports arena to be commercially viable. Oops, just looked back and it wasn’t you who posted about the shuttered businesses, but BHS who has not lived here long enough to know. sorry dibs.

  • I recommend people check out this corner on Google Earth street view – it looks to be from a two or three years ago.

    While not a wasteland, the mix of businesses makes Fulton Mall look upscale.
    I do not think that the previous mix is optimal for such a busy pedestrian area, arena or no arena.

    As a nearby resident (2 blocks away), I think the restaurant/bar is a big improvement, and I look forward to other new businesses moving in.

  • “the atlantic yards battle v2.0

    be against anything that could be remotely linked to serving the “arena crowd”

    NIMBY shit”

    Agree with DH. I’d only amend it to say they’ll be against ANYTHING NEW, period.

  • This sounds like a reasonably proficient and well known chef with a business plan to expand an already well reviewed Manhattan restaurant to Brooklyn. If this guy was trying to open this on Vanderbilt or somewhere else on 5th, it would be seen as a welcome bit of borough boosterism.

    Confused by the neighborhood reaction. Had I stayed in this are(n)a, I would likley be thinking this is better than a vacant storefront or some large big box chain or chain restaurant. I guess anyone who now lives in the shadow is going to be a bit touch and worrisome about any new business for a while.

  • Since most of Brownstone Brooklyn is landmarked isn’t it NIMBY by definition? It was legislated to not change.

  • “i’ve never seen violence in a sports bar. i have however seen moonfaces get into slap happy catfights when one thinks the other stole their cocaine.”

    I don’t know what a moonface is, but not too far back 40 cent wings at Buffalo Wild Wings across the street culminated in two shootouts and a stabbing.

  • it’s really unfair to say that those against the arena and Ay are simply NIMBY. There are plenty of reasons not to like the project, plenty of people and businesses were uprooted or destroyed, beautiful old buildings demolished and beautifully renovated one soon to come down. I won’t even get into the dishonesty and financial screwing taxpayers are getting- but frankly, denigrating these people as NIMBY’s has nothing to do with the reality of who they are and everything to do with name calling.But then, name calling is always easier, isn’t it? And until you’re put in the same position, I challenge anyone to tell me they wouldn’t be fighting for their home and neighborhood in similar circumstances.

  • Bx – that’s all true but has little to do with Angelo opening a gastropub here.

    Someone quoted in the post asked what ties he had to Brooklyn…uhhh, what is this, a bail hearing?

  • OK, I just read the AYR article. This is not the ‘proprieters from Social Eatz’. One of the investors has previouse experience with that midtown restaurant. They are looking to open up a place called ‘players’. Why wouldn’t the brownsoner clip be more clear about that?

  • I’m shaking my head at this wholoce conversation. The ppl who are portesting aren’t simply NIMBYs, they have a problem with the fact that bars and sports bars in particular, are the only businesses opening up in the immediate area next to the arena. I don’t care how progressive you are, you wouldn’t want just bars opening right and left in your neighborhood. And the fact is, the arena opened very close to a residential neighborhood, so of couse these residents would be pissed. Put yourself in their place. The key word is OVERSATURATION.

  • But then, name calling is always easier, isn’t it? And until you’re put in the same position, I challenge anyone to tell me they wouldn’t be fighting for their home and neighborhood in similar circumstances.

    **

    If I recall correctly, the anti-AY folks are pretty good at name-calling.

    And I love my home. But if someone offered me 2X-3X what I paid for it right now, they’d have a deal.

  • Oh, and P.S., they can call it whatever they want–gastropub, sustainable farming restaurant. It’s really a BAR.

  • JB- well, it does because of the attitude- on both sides.

    Very good points, tiptoe.

  • ENY- not saying there isn’t blame to go around, but just look at this thread. The first words out of anyone’s keyboard is “NIMBYS” and near universal condemnation. Fine that you would sell if someone offered you enough money. But that’s you. I know people who would never sell their homes because, well- it’s home.

  • From the post, the landlord was against AY, but now that it’s happening he’s renting his property to a group of investors that want to engage in a long term successful business. The landlord moved on, so should everyone else.

  • Hey Jessibaby, just because one person changed his tune (and that is only regards to a restaurant, he is still anti-yards) doesn’t mean everyone else should too.

    You decide it’s a good idea to jump off a bridge. Should I just join you now?

  • “they have a problem with the fact that bars and sports bars in particular, are the only businesses opening up in the immediate area next to the arena”

    What evidence do you have to back this up?

    In the last 6 months:
    - A Best Buy opened in Atlantic Center.
    - A Vet hospital opened at 4th and Pacific.
    - Sloan Kettering opened a treatment center on Atlantic right past 4th.
    - There is a different thread today that mentions new retail going in on another block across from the Arena.

    I’m sure there are many more businesses that have opened up.

    As someone else mentioned, this restaurant/bar would be welcomed in most other commercial areas of Brooklyn.

  • “You decide it’s a good idea to jump off a bridge. Should I just join you now?”

    jumping off a bridge does not equal opening up a business in a vacant storefront.

  • bxgrl, you wrote: “I challenge anyone to tell me they wouldn’t be fighting for their home and neighborhood in similar circumstances.”

    By “anyone” you imply that EVERYONE would behave in the same manner. That’s clearly not true. As you say in a subsequent post, it’s apersonal choice. One size does not fit all.

    “The landlord moved on, so should everyone else.”

    Indeed. And SOMEHOW, Brooklyn was not “destroyed” when AY got the go-ahead! Unbelievable!

  • and if i were the CB – i would WANT these places to open. people going to the games will be looking for places to eat and drink. better keep them away from the neighborhood spots. DUH

  • Why don’t you look at the latest liquor applications with Community Board 6? It’s utter craziness. A major reason why CB 6 held off on granting this app.

  • BHJS- in all fairness, it’s right next to a residential area, and it won’t be the only restaurant/bar opening up. I think surrounding neighborhoods are going to be greatly impacted.Not always in good ways.

  • ENY – when ppl talk about Brooklyn being destroyed, they are talking about the future, once the rena is built. that hasn’t happened yet. I guess some people are concerned that the things they love about Brooklyn (nice neighborhood vibes, picturesque streets) will disppear once the Arena is fully opened. It’s a legitimate concern as far as I see it.

    Not that you would care, but the big community garden on Pacific? The community hired a shade expert and he basically told them that the arena’s shadow will basically kill off all the flowers that require sun (which is all of them). Good-bye garden.

  • ENY- do you not recognize a rhetorical statement? You used yourself as an example- implying if you would sell, wouldn’t anyone? So how is that any different?

  • Is is next to a residential area, but it is also practically on Flatbush and faces the back of a Modell’s.
    In this case, there is no proposal for an outside area, which will greatly reduce the impact.

    In my totally unscientific observations, if every currently vacant storefront in the area was converted into a restaurant/bar, there would still be fewer than on 5th avenue a few blocks deeper into Park Slope or Smith St.

    I will say that I am not an impartial observer.
    I live in an apartment where I can see the arena construction, and I made a decision to live here knowing the arena was coming.

    Over a year later, I am still very pleased with my decision.

    I would much rather have these new restaurant/bars in my neighborhood rather than the stores they are replacing.

  • I guess some people are concerned that the things they love about Brooklyn (nice neighborhood vibes, picturesque streets) will disppear once the Arena is fully opened. It’s a legitimate concern as far as I see it.

    **

    Brooklyn is a big place. There will be plenty of nice neighborhood vibes, picturesque streets left ALL AROUND the borough after AY construction is complete.

    So the “community” garden (which I believe is normally locked and only open to those who have keys or know someone who deos) will go. That will only leave THOUSANDS of community gardens all around the borough, including several near this area. Meanwhile, some folks will have jobs, others (like me) will enjoy pro basketball in their backyards, and economic activity will take place where it didn’t exist before, in a location that is adjacent to Brooklyn’s downtown area and served by multiple subway and commuter rail lines. Not to mention it is about a mile away from PROSPECT PARK, which I think will suffice for the loss of a small, exclusive “community” garden.

  • wow, so, ppl in the immediate neighborhood should only live vicariously through other brooklyn residents that presumably deserve pictureque streets, a nice neighborhood vibe and gardens. OK, now I’ve heard it all.

    Is East New York like that?

  • ENY- do you not recognize a rhetorical statement? You used yourself as an example- implying if you would sell, wouldn’t anyone? So how is that any different?

    **

    You didn’t pose your statement rhetorically, bxgrl. You used “anyone,” which, as I said, necessarily implies that your hypothesis applies to everyone. My statement, in response to yours, reflected my personal opinion. in that I only mentioned what I would do in that case. That’s quite different.

  • were people bitching on the over saturation of coffee shops, cupcake shops, etc in the area? or is over saturation something we only whip out to smack around bars and other retail some residents dont like? vacant shops are terrible – shitty for the landlord and shitty for the hood. if someone has the balls to put their money in for a bar, restaurant, coffee shop, etc, good for them. and if someone whips out the “I was here first” angle in telling off the proprietor, that’s lame. real lame.

  • “arena’s shadow will basically kill off all the flowers that require sun”

    I find that hard to believe, given the width of Flatbush, and the height of the buildings to the south of the garden.

    Can you produce a copy of this study?

    I do not doubt that the amount of sunlight will be reduced somewhat in the morning, but by if the arena shadow is enough to kill off all flowers, it seems like there should be none living anywhere in Manhattan and half of Brooklyn.

  • Is East New York like that?

    **

    I live in Crown Heights, although I’m from ENY. BOTH neighborhoods have nice areas and thriving community gardens, which most people who post on this site wouldn’t know anything about. At times, natural environments have been displaced for development, like the sand flats of ENY (formed by the end moraine of a glacier), which in time became what is now the Gateway complex.

    People do not have to “live vicariously through other brooklyn residents that presumably deserve pictureque streets, a nice neighborhood vibe and gardens.” Even the area surrounding AY still has lots of these amenities. That’s just silly. No neighborhood or residents “deserve” anything. People make choices based on the reality of the situation. If living in the suddenly community-park bereft AY area is so objectionable, there are options.

  • Actually, ENY, you would have a point if I had said “everyone,” so the assumption as to my meaning is all yours.

  • Actually, ENY, you would have a point if I had said “everyone,” so the assumption as to my meaning is all yours.

    **

    No, actually I do have a point and a quite well-made one at that. You don’t seem to want to admit that for some reason.

    You said: “I challenge anyone to tell me they wouldn’t be fighting for their home and neighborhood in similar circumstances.”

    Used thusly, “anyone” IMPLIES “everyone.”

  • Again, ENY- in your mind. I am not arguing over it. And I don’t appreciate people who try to insist they know better than I, what I meant. If you want to make a fight out of it, have at it. We’re done here.

  • if al di la wanted to open a wine bar here would there be the same opposition?

  • I found a long post about the garden on Atlantic Yards Report
    http://atlanticyardsreport.blogspot.com/search?q=%22community+garden%22+flowers

    Apparently if the since scaled back and put on indefinite hold “Miss Brooklyn” building were built to original plans, it would “deny sun to the garden until at least 11 a.m. May through August.”

    Since the arena is much lower and farther away, the impact shadow will be much lower.

    If a 350 foot building is build on the Model’s site, it “would cast shadows for only 45 minutes at the end of the day in June.”

    No mention of the total death of flowers, and I trust Norman Oder to never pass up a chance to find something else wrong with AY.

  • “I am not arguing over it.”

    You’re giving a pretty good impression. You may have not meant what you said, but what you SAID means “everyone.” I’m not fighting, just pointing out the facts.

  • Again and for the last time, that’s YOUR interpretation. I know what I meant and that’s what I am not arguing over. Are we done now? Good.

  • “Again and for the last time, that’s YOUR interpretation.”

    Actually, that is the interpretation that would be derived from what you said. I’m sure you know what you meant, but it’s not what your words implied.

  • Furniture stores are quiet at night. Bars are not.

  • some nearby blocks are super quiet at night too.

  • I bought a Futon from one of those furniture stores in 1997. They were SO ghetto.

  • Aren’t these the same people that bemoaned the eviction of Freddy’s, dive bar extraordinaire?

  • I agree that the few “locals” who protest this will win. Isn’t CB approval purely advisory? Where’s Dan Goldstein on this topic? Funny how he declared upon taking Ratner’s money that he would not be silenced, but we’ve heard nary a word from him since.

  • quote:
    Not that you would care, but the big community garden on Pacific? The community hired a shade expert and he basically told them that the arena’s shadow will basically kill off all the flowers that require sun (which is all of them). Good-bye garden.

    omfg caring about a stupid garden versus 5000 plus new jobs!!!!?!??! jeeeeez. grow some hydroponics in your closet and call it day.

    *rob*