Atlantic Yards Opponents Actually Win One

atlantic-yards-signage-111010.jpgOpponents of the Atlantic Yards project won their first major legal victory yesterday when Supreme Court Justice Marcy Friedman ruled that the Empire State Development Corporation (ESDC) hadn’t sufficiently studied the community impact of a construction schedule that is now expected to last closer to 25 years rather than the ten initially put forth. Atlantic Yards Report explains that while the ruling will not immediately effect construction, it could subject the Atlantic Yards project to further arguments in court. For now, the case has been sent back to ESDC for reconsideration. It requires the ESDC to provide a “detailed, reasoned basis for [its] findings” on environmental impact while taking construction delays into account. “The Court properly found that ESDC misrepresented the facts of the contracts and there were no requirements that FCRC complete the project” says DDDB counsel Jeffrey Baker. “ESDC’s lack of transparency was not just with respect to its own deliberations, but extended to trying to hide material facts from the Court. We are very pleased that Justice Friedman did not tolerate that behavior.”
Justice Friedman Slams ESDC… [Atlantic Yards Report]
Court Slams NY State on AY, Rules in Favor of DDDB [DDDB]

63 Comment

  • I don’t think this is necessarily a win. The arena will still be built. Now we just get to spend more tax dollars on court arguments and lawyers. Pyrrhic victory.

  • Just what do they hope to accomplish at this stage??? Really, enough is enough. There’s a big hole. The sooner it gets builkt the better. The delays are due to the delays because of the lawsuits.

  • Emily, if you’d like a great view of the arena construction, the seating area in front of the snack bar at Target has windows that let you see it all. (Why I was there when they opened this morning at 8 is another story!)

  • “the agency in charge of economic development in the state behaves somewhat like a guy on Craigslist trying to rent you an apartment he doesn’t quite own.”

    -Atlantic Yards Report 11/10/10

  • target opens at 8AM?

  • Did anyone even want this thing in the first place?

  • 8 is the best time to go :-) And yes, they do have the best view. That window and also the one in the mall itself on the second floor overlooks it.

  • who knew Target was the place to hang out at 8AM?

  • Sure, you could easily find plenty of people who wanted it, just as you can find plenty who didn’t. But wanting it or not is moot at this point. It’s going to get built. The only question is how many more delays and court battles will come before the completion of construction. No disrespect to those who don’t want the arena (hell, I don’t want it either), but it’s time to focus on getting the damn thing done in the best/safest/most aesthetically pleasing way possible. Get on the train or get run over.

  • I had never heard of it before I started reading brownstoner in late 2007 after I moved to brooklyn. I still don’t really care one way or another.

  • I think the biggest issue was always it’s location and the sweetheart deal for the land. But it’s a done deal. No sense crying about it anymore. What’s done is done. And if any of the DDDB folks think they stand a snowball’s chance in hell of getting the project canceled and the streetscape restored to what it was before, I know of a great therapist you can see about your delusions.

  • I dunno Snaps. I think I actually prefer a hole in the ground to an arena. I honestly cannot imagine the traffic nightmares to come, to say nothing of the crowds, the litter, the change in feel etc. I avoid arena nabes like the plague. Just don’t like walking through them, and certainly don’t want to have to pass through them in a vehicle when games are being played.

    It simply never belonged here. Terrible, greedy idea. And it has never been sufficiently vetted — no one has any idea how it will be possible to keep traffic moving and to keep this part of Brooklyn safe during games given traffic laws with regard to safeguarding against possible bombs and so on. Sigh. I sort of feel giddy any time there is any kind of teensy victory against this project and this asshole.

  • What’s at issue is not whether it will get built, but whether the project will be done responsibly at this point.

  • I’m w/ Noki. Sanitation, schools, traffic – all less of a hassle w/ a hole in the ground than w/ an arena.

  • But we all know that the hole in the ground is not and will never be permanent. Something is going to go there, like it or not. I’d love to have my direct 5th ave access to AC back, but I’d also like the winning mega millions numbers.

  • is there anyway this could translate into a return to the Frank Gehry design? as the answer is probably no, i still really resent the bait and switch, and wish Ratner the most amount of headaches possible, and hope he’s held accountable for any corners he tries to cut

  • If DDDB wants to fight for a better design on the building, go for it. But to keep up legal battles when you know the stadium is going to be built is a serious waste of time and money. We are getting this hassle either way. Now the question is will it be a reasonably pleasant hassle to look at or not.

  • The thing that I can get a sense of is what exactly this case means. So the case has been remanded to ESDC for additional “findings”. From ESDC’s perspective, what’s the rush….they can take 6 months, 9 months, a year or two to come up with their “findings”. I did not see anything in the ruling that established some sort of time frame for next steps. (Unless I’m missing something) for DDDB, this is a “victory” that doesn’t really mean anything. The arena (and most likely the other buildings in “phase 1” will get built. The only thing this seems to guarantee is that there will be more lawsuits in the future.

    Also, it also appears that ultimately, ESDC will win, because, even in chiding ESDC, the judge points out that it is not the role of the judiciary to make policy, but rather to provide scrutiny…in other words, the courts can criticize but they will ultimately have to defer to the administrative agency.

  • “I think I actually prefer a hole in the ground to an arena.”

    Well, I’ve been here all my life, made my living here, and will be here when a lot of you guys have moved on. And I thank God I won’t have to look at the fucking hole anymore.

  • Will Ratner even be alive when this thing gets finished?

  • “I sort of feel giddy any time there is any kind of teensy victory against this project and this asshole.”

    I agree completely. Snappy’s right, too, there is going to be something there, like it or not, and we’ll be dealing with it, and the ramifications thereof, for a long time.

    My best hope is that this entire fiasco is a lesson writ large for future projects in this city. No sane developer would want to go through the mess Ratner did. Very few could afford to. Not that I feel sorry for him, because he is reaping what he sowed. The city must grow. We need development in certain places, and we certainly need housing, especially middle class and affordable housing. We’re not likely to see any of that here. I wish I had saved my pamphlet FCR sent around to everyone in Brooklyn, showing gleaming towers with happy multi-racial parents, kids on shoulders, walking through the AY gardens, and past shops and offices. What a work of fiction.

  • “What a work of fiction.”

    Perhaps his next project will be a book collaboration with the likes of Jackie Collins – picture it…a novel about snotty rich Brooklyn ladies :-)

  • “I honestly cannot imagine the traffic nightmares to come.”

    As it stands now, if one lane on the BQE is out near Tillary st. traffic spiderwebs all the way into Carroll Gardens.

  • Point of no return. Let ’em build the goddamn arena.

    ***Bid half off peak comps***

  • It will get built- sadly. But the other issues remain- the fact that ESDC did not do its job, the sweetheart deals, the lies Ratner told- the arena is only one part of the project. lets see what this means for the rest of it and those illusory “low to middle” income housing that was promised. How much more money will taxpayers lose on this deal and how much more inconvenienced will we be by the construction. The blighting of an up and coming neighborhood, the gifting of the air rights by the MTA – anyone who still thinks the arena or the project is a benefit just isn’t looking at it with their eyes open.

  • “The city must grow. We need development in certain places, and we certainly need housing, especially middle class and affordable housing. We’re not likely to see any of that here.”

    Tell me, MM…who else was going to build here? Not until Ratner came along did any developer have any intention of doing anything here. This spot was destined to be a wasteland as it’s been for the last 40 years. Ratner did get a sweetheart deal, no question. But how many developers have received similarly favorable deals in NYC? Also, while you and others criticize the cost of the housing that will be built on the site, the housing here will be pretty much in line with the cost of housing in the immediate area, which is NOT inexpensive! There was no low-income housing coming to this location under any scenario I can imagine. Meanwhile the project will bring jobs to the area. Now, you can criticize the wage scale of those jobs, clearly there will be economic activity where it did not previously exist. And as for traffic, this area is actually less dense than the area around Madison Square Garden, which is in the middle of Manhattan, and everyone there seems to survive. Will there be heavy traffic? Yes! But this is NYC, for god’s sake! We handle heavy traffic daily! Furthermore this is the logical place to build the arena – in an area heavily served by subway and commuter rail lines. I am really glad this project is going ahead, and I think it’s great that the picayune objections of folks who I believe have unrealistic views of the area and what is appropriate are being recognized for what they are.

  • Oh this decision is a perfect metaphor for the whole anti-AY fight:

    The court has found that ESDC misled it in a court action brought by DDDB seeking to DELAY the AY project (force a
    suplemental enivro impact statement), by not coming clean about known DELAYS in the construction schedule (due in part to prior delaying actions by DDDB); and with this ruling DDDB will now seek to get the project DELAYED.

    So whats the impact on this abuse of process and sheer folly -> the arena will get built and the rest of the development will be DELAYED even further; meaning that rather than getting an urban arena in the midst of a residential and office complex, we will get an arena surrounded by emptiness (which will quickly be co-oped into parking). And who will DDDB and its ilk blame for the WORST possible outcome imaginable…why Ratner of course.
    Does the “opposition” just want to “win” or do they want whats best for Brooklyn – seems clear to me.


  • “Does the “opposition” just want to “win” or do they want whats best for Brooklyn – seems clear to me.”

    Indeed. I couldn’t agree more.

  • fsrq, the near-term plan is already “an arena surrounded by emptiness (which will quickly be co-oped into parking).”

    I think BrooklynSpeaks is going to try and leverage this into positive improvements … or at least I hope so.

  • I’d rather have a nice big park there. A little Prospect Park baby. That way the public can actually play basketball instead of watching the overpaid Nets lose.

    As for my sentimenets, of course I’m against Atlantic Yards (especially the evil Russian billionaire associated with it) and I will never step foot inside of it. And yeah, I did giggle with glee myself when learning of this news. However, like everyone has already said, this victory is essentially meaningless but should be a forewarning to other massive and irresponsible development.

  • The arena is the least of the issues here. It is the rest of the development. Basically, the plan for it kinda sucks, both as urban design and as a development project. I mean – 25 years – who’s kidding whom? Who thinks FCR is going to be throwing money at this thing years from now? They need to get that sorted out, and, when a private developer is taking so much from the public to build a project and returning so little of benefit, the least they can do is plan to mitigate the impacts.

  • Agreed, this ruling will have very little impact on final outcome of Atlantic Yards. But anything that further costs Ratner or the ESDC at this point is a reminder to developers and government agencies to think twice before they try this in my (or your) neighborhood.

  • I live a block away from it and can see the construction from my apartment, but it does not really bother me.

    For a city of its size, NYC has a shortage of large arena/event/concert spaces, and this is by far the best place in the city to locate an arena in terms of transit accessibility and current land use.

    It seems like the the people against this fall into two camps: the “preserve the city in amber” crowd who don’t want anything to ever change, and drivers who are upset at the thought of more traffic on Flatbush and Atlantic.

    Did Ratner get sweetheart deals? yes
    Did he lie? almost certainly
    Could the MTA and city gotten a better deal from other developers? yes
    Would those deals also have included super-dense housing? of course
    Would the construction time lines for those have been delayed due to recession? Duh
    Will this be good for Brooklyn in the long term? I think so

  • “Does the “opposition” just want to “win” or do they want whats best for Brooklyn – seems clear to me.””

    Does anyone honestly think Ratner cares more for Brooklyn? Is that why he started this entire megaproject with sweetheart deals, lack of real oversight, and decimating the neighborhood he had his eye on? Please. Say whatever you want about this project but the idea ratner cares more about what’s good for Brooklyn than the opponents is sheer folly. Take off those rose colored glasses.

  • ENY, when the MTA announced they were selling the yards, there were other people besides Ratner interested in it. One group actually offered the MTA more money, a group that had a plan ready to go. It wasn’t as flashy or ambitious, and didn’t have a starchitect attached to it, but it was much more sensible and realistic in its goals. They got passed over like bologna at a gourmet salad bar.

    What really irks me about the housing promised is that it was pretty obvious that affordable housing was only promised, 1) because projects are required to include it, on site or off, in order to be eligible for gov’t subsidies. 2) It was a marketing ploy deliberately planned to sucker people like Bertha Lewis and ACORN and Rev. Daughtry in, who ordinarily would be against it. 3)To create a class and race war between poorer people, mostly minorities, desperate for housing, against what were perceived to be gentrifying, granola-eating, NIMBY white folks who wanted to keep things as they were.

    It was a brilliant, almost Machievellian strategy. The only thing they didn’t plan on was a stubborn SOB like Goldstein, and his organization, the political opposition by all of the local pols except Marty, some damn good lawyers, and disparate groups of people from all over, who could see through the smokescreen. The opposition may have lost the battle, but in the long run, Ratner lost the war.

  • “They got passed over like bologna at a gourmet salad bar.”

    Best. Line. Ever.


  • Bxgrl -“Please. Say whatever you want about this project but the idea ratner cares more about what’s good for Brooklyn than the opponents is sheer folly. Take off those rose colored glasses.”

    I think you better take off your glasses too, because you are reading things that werent written anywhere.

    MM- the Extell bid was a red herring introduced by DDDB – DDDB brought them in with their so called Unity plan, Extell had no ability or intention of completing that plan. as for:

    “The opposition may have lost the battle, but in the long run, Ratner lost the war.”

    You are totally wrong – the war is over, and like most wars, the victor (Ratner) got less than he hoped and the biggest victims were the non-combatants (Brooklyn and NYC residents). Whats amazing to me is that despite the results being obvious to EVERYONE, these IMBY’s will continue to fight, when the only possible result is even worse outcome for the community they claim to represent.

  • fsrq – my recolledtion is that the Extell bid preceeded the Unity Plan – the latter always seemed to me to be more focused and energized by Pratt folks and other organizations than by DDDB, although DDDB was of course a part of it – at least, as a participant in many of the planning discussions, that was my observation.
    As so often, I think MM is spot on with her analysis –
    and while we are sadly stuck with the arena, as architect points out, the critical issue now is to look at the larger development plan – or be stuck with acres of parking lot for the next 25 years.
    (oh, and that “bologna at a gourmet salad bar” is stellar)

  • “MM- the Extell bid was a red herring introduced by DDDB – DDDB brought them in with their so called Unity plan, Extell had no ability or intention of completing that plan.”

    Sez you, fsrq. We’ll never know, as they never got a chance to show their stuff, whatsoever. The game was rigged from the beginning.

  • Brooklyn Red – your recollection is wrong, the Extell bid was ‘created’ by DDDB as a tactic and Extell played along because Gary Barnett (extell) hates Bruce Ratner. It wwas a tactic, not a serious bid.
    I bet if you got Dan Goldstein high he’d readily admit to same.

  • “They got passed over like bologna at a gourmet salad bar.”

    C’mon, MM. Those groups showed up after the fact, and there is no way to guarantee they would bring a viable project to the table.

    3)To create a class and race war between poorer people, mostly minorities”

    That’s quite a stretch. I think Ratner wanted to build an arena surrounded by market-rate housing with as much “affordable” housing as he’d be required to build. Why? To make a lot of money, like any businessman. I don’t begrudge him that, and don’t think there was any nefarious plot involved. That’s just silly. WHATEVER he built would have been MORE “affordable” housing than would have occurred at that site through ordinary market forces.

    “a stubborn SOB like Goldstein”

    A agree on the second adjective.

    “The opposition may have lost the battle, but in the long run, Ratner lost the war.”

    How, exactly? He’s still going to build his project, he just won’t make as much money as he envisioned. How are you keeping score?

  • “the biggest victims were the non-combatants (Brooklyn and NYC residents).”

    Indeed. And thanks to DDDB, there will be a lot more time and money wasted. Good job.

  • I really can’t imagine why anyone would wish for the original Gehry designs. They were a REAL mess of shit. While I was never in favor of the arena in this location, I find the new arena design more palatable than Gehry’s. (I said palatable, not beautiful.) The renewed, revamped, recreation center in Coney Island would have been the logical place to locate the Nets, especially since there are nearby highways and a very large totally renewed subway hub there. If and when the new project is completed, the Atlantic Avenue collection of stations will be incredibly crowded, probably as bad as the one at 72nd St and Broadway.

    I can understand wanting the whole in the ground filled, but face it, no matter what happens as a result of this ruling, we Brooklyn residents are going to be treated to acres of parking lot for at least a couple of more decades. I can’t say whether Extell could have built their project any more quickly, but they ARE a major builder. In the meantime, our cash-strapped MTA, which constantly bemoans their lack of money gave Ratner a hell of a good deal, much much less than that which Extell offers. Think of that the next time you complain about a subway fare hike. As to Bertha and the good reverand, I strongly suspect that they were not totally unwitting dupes and that some of Ratner’s money found its way into their pockets.

    Actually, the idea of a nice park on this site is really great. Lots of trees which would help to mitigate all the fumes from the nearby gridlock traffic — and a good spot to bury Ratner when he croaks … hopefully very soon. Hell, they could stick emperor bloomberg there also. In the meantime, I’ve found much much nicer places to shop in Brooklyn than Ratner’s crappy mall.

  • Kudos to ENY for bringing some sensibility to this conversaton.

    Amazing how this issue can still generate so much commentary.

    But look, it’s all been said before, the DDDB folks and their allies LOST yet they still trot out the same old red herring arguments. Move on, folks. Quite why any of you would “giggle” a little bit at this non-news is beyond me. It doesn’t matter a bit, and I’m sure Ratner could care less at this point.

    As ENY said, Ratner clearly didn’t lose the war; the real losers here were the non-combatants. Good job DDDB!

  • Thank you for the link, fsrk , but the Times’ analysis of AY was never very impressive – often toady (look at Confessore’s happy acceptance of all of Ratner’s projections in July 2006). The “unity plan discussions” I remember were ones in late 2006 and sponsored in part by the Municipal Art Society and Livable Spaces – as part of an attempt to provide other-than-Rathner alternatives to the PACB hearing in December of that year – but it all was a done deal already.

    However,I am curious..given where AY is right now (in terms of the build time/scope projections Ratner is making) – and absent our endless discussions about who did what when, do you have any concerns about accountability or environmental issues moving forward or see a role for any governmental review of a project the government so heavily subsidizes? Or are you suggesting no monitering, no review?

  • My reading comprehension is fine, fsrg. I quoted from the posts above.

    And thanks again to MM for saying it like it was. The cynicism and racial manipulation of the Ratner group is astounding. And not in a good way.

  • Brooklyn Red – that link is one of many, search google – there is no question that DDDB brought the Unity plan to Extell and they then signed on (right before the time for bid submission.)and submitted a bid. (Its even stated that way on Dan Goldstein’s website.)

    As to going forward and my view on potential environmental issues? I am confident that the myriad of rules, regulations, inspections and oversight that control are more than adequate so, no I do not have any special environmental concerns…they are going to be building apartments not power plants.

    As to general government oversight of the project – sure it would be nice if our politicians (and community groups) tried to exert some leverage to make better use of the ‘fallow’ land until the rest of the project is complete (parking lots would be a disaster and against everything that should be built there) and to try to make the project as successful, mass-transit oriented, attractive and least disruptive as possible (getting office space here or on Flatbush corridor would also be an effective Governmental role)

    But the problem is that the ‘No to everything’ people will abuse every lever available (such as litigation, regulatory process, etc) to KILL the whole thing (even though it is too late) so effective “review” is difficult.
    It would be a tragedy if in 30years instead of a hole – my kids get Brendan Byrne arena surrounded by endless parking. But if the NIMBYs dont stop thats exactly where we are headed.

  • ENY, I say Ratner lost the war because he’ll never be able to do another deal like that one again. His reputation took a bit hit. Most people may not have known who he was, really, but they do now, and it’s not all positive. Next time, locals are going to be much more wary of who they are partnering with, or trusting.

    And he lost a ton of money, time and credibility. In the long run, when a big project is planned, the developer’s ability to deliver somewhere near on time becomes a big part of whether or not said developer gets to do more projects. His time table is now off the charts completely.

    If he had approached the project on the up and up in the first place, things would have been much different. He built projects in Brooklyn before without all the drama. He could have done so here.

  • Bxgrl – you “QUOTED” from the posts above???????????

    Please state the time and poster who said:
    and I quote from YOUR post @ 11:30AM

    “the idea ratner cares more about what’s good for Brooklyn than the opponents is sheer folly.”

    – short answer=you will not be able to find such a post because no one said that (or ever made such a comparison – except you) – please save your silly ‘strawman’ arguments for someone slightly dumber than me

  • “His reputation took a bit hit.”

    I think it got worse with people who weren’t crazy about him anyway. Like I said, he’s still doing the project, and remains one of the city’s top developers. I don’t see that changing. I imagine time will tell.

    “He built projects in Brooklyn before without all the drama.”

    Actually I was in college at LIU when he proposed MetroTech, which was similarly derided and opposed. In the end, MetroTech was a very good thing for a neighborhood that prior to the development was a good place to score drugs or pick up a “date.” So excuse me if I just don’t buy any of this misguided opposition.

  • eny and fsrq rock.

    Noki’s post is an example of the mass hysteria of the nimbys. Bombs? Really? Have there been any bombs in Yankee Stadium? Shea? MSG?

    And is that a reason not to build an arena? I guess that falls under the ‘the terrorists have won’ category.

  • Don’t be an idiot Denton. I was referring to local laws that have required a standard safety net of space specifically for the purposes of safeguarding against bombs or other “terrorist” acts. Rather similar to laws in San Francisco having to do with earthquake-friendly building and so on. I was not being in the least “hysterical”.

  • This discussion deserves a rare usage of all caps:


    The arena is being built, and it’s unlikely anyone, including DDDb will fight that. However, the second phase has not started, and that’s the part that will likely take decades to build.

    If you don’t want community groups suing the ESDC, then maybe you should ask the ESDC not to lie.

    If you want good design, then maybe you should ask for projects that are not based on lies.

    This case is about the Environmental Impact Statement that said the project would take 10 years, while the construction agreements showed that everyone expected the project to last 25 years. I will go out on a limb and say that is a lie.

  • Wow, I just googled “safety and security concerns Atlantic Yards” because I remembered having read about it not having sufficient distance between the proposed arena and traffic and that NYC cops were really troubled, and I came upon this immediately:

    “…Reviewing projects to identify terrorism issues is becoming critical as this country – especially New York City – learns to cope with the new reality of living in a world where terrorists can strike anywhere and at any time. The proposed BAY high-rise and arena project plans contradict current trends concerning security requirements. Unless redesigned, the BAY project will make Brooklyn a decidedly less safe place to live, work or visit.
    The authors estimate that a devastating attack on the BAY project area – for instance, an 18-wheel tractor- trailer packed with 12,000 lbs of explosives detonating next to the glass walled Net’s Arena – could cause 3,000 to nearly 7,000 casualties, create $250 to $500 million in direct damage and up to $1 billion in collateral and indirect damage. Additionally, the costs to prevent a terrorist attack are estimated at more than $25 million annually in direct and indirect expenses for security implementation, including but not limited to: vehicle screenings, transit security, mass event patrols and check points, closed circuit monitoring and operational personnel (see appendix A)…”

    You pissed me off Denton, with your condescending proclamations of my being hysterical in a sheep-like way. Feel free to disagree with my position with regard to AY, just try to be respectful.

  • “Don’t be an idiot Denton.”

    Right, your idea of respectful.

  • “Does the “opposition” just want to “win” or do they want whats best for Brooklyn – seems clear to me. ”

    fsrg- you wrote this at 10:25.I simply responded to what you meant. Try keeping track of the conversations, shall we? Or are you backtracking on what you are saying?

  • Nokillisa (respectfully) you just quoted a white paper commissioned by the most hyperbolic & hysterical NIMBY’s surrounding AY – as evidence that you are not being hysterical and hyperbolic….

    “The report was solicited by members of the local community and Develop-Don’t Destroy Brooklyn (DDDB), a neighborhood group formed in opposition to Ratner’s plan to build a professional basketball arena and 17 high-rises, some of them skyscrapers, on a swath of Prospect Heights that emanates from the intersection of Atlantic and Flatbush avenues.”

  • bxgrl I know what I said, but

    “Does the “opposition” just want to “win” or do they want whats best for Brooklyn – seems clear to me. ”

    does not equal:

    “the idea ratner cares more about what’s good for Brooklyn than the opponents is sheer folly.”

    However you making that false equivalency:

    Does equal = Strawman argument

    And in case you dont understand the above logic tree Ill make it clearer.

    It is irrelevant what Ratner wants (or his motivation) if we are going to get an arena (and we all know we are) then delaying the inevitable (and leaving us with a construction zone in the heart of our neighborhood) through endless and meaningless lawsuits is NOT best for Brooklyn.

  • The most depressing thing about this ruling is that we have to endure a droning hackneyed speech from rich boy Dan Goldstein. Ever since he accepted $3 million from Ratner, we have largely been spared his NIMBY ramblings. Now that this tiny bit of activity has passed, let’s hope that he goes back into hiding.

  • The funny thing about all the discussions over the time lines for when the residential buildings will be built is that no one really knows.

    When the capital markets improve and apartment prices/rents go up enough, construction will be start.
    Will that be in 5, 10, or 25 years? I don’t think anyone can answer that right now with any degree of certainty.

  • Ah, right, Denton. Someone calls you out on your bullying with a swat (my “don’t be an idiot”) and you cry ironic foul. Bet that works for you often enough that you keep it up but infrequently actually listen.

    And fsrq, as I stated pretty clearly, this was what popped up first when I googled the issue because I was trying to summon the information from foggy memory. It looked interesting and thoughtful. If you had intended to be respectful in your reply, you certainly would have crafted it differently.

    Wow. This is unpleasant. I’m out.

  • Ahhhhh yes! The end of another AY thread on Brownstoner. Anyone who dares call out this boondoggle for what it is immediately gets labeled a “NIMBY” “rich kid” or is characterized as otherwise inauthentic by the project’s boorish cheerleaders. After all, it is the project’s proponents who are the real authentic old Brooklynites and they know what is best for us here. So you know it’s a done deal, and everyone who happens to live here just has to deal with the way the deal was done.

    But it’s a great story, don’t you think? Rife with all kinds of colorful actors: the craven politicos, the boot-licking toadies, the bought and paid for community leaders, the lying developer and his russian oligarch money man, the vain starchitect who was played for a fool, the strange, shady and opaque bureaucracy that was for some reason entrusted with ensuring compliance with state laws, the obstreperous NIMBY activists, the crusading advocates for good government, and let’s not forget the cool, cocky enviornmental engineering guns for hire. I can hear them saying: “review of this issue is outside the scope of CEQR guidelines for compliance…”

    The rest of us – well – we’re just the peanut gallery and hardly rate a mention in the story. What we think – nobody cares but us. But anyway, it’s the plot that I care about, and how it turns out in the end. It would really suck to have a bland, soul-less, poorly constructed residential development there that takes years to build, and it would be really great to have a lively and well-designed place that complements and improves the surrounding areas.

    It makes sense to pay attention to what is going on with this development. It is a big deal, and will have a major impact on the people who live here.